What do you say??? | ADHD Information
I would look into a new med new, because that would also scare me. Could it be that it is the right med but wrong dose? I'm just thinking out loud I guess. {{hugs}} to you, that's an awful feeling.
My son has the perfectionist thing to and its so frustrating for him and to watch. He'll be doing something well and rip it or scribble over it because he says he messed it up.
That is exactly what it is:: wonder if it's just a manifestation of internally directed anger, rather than externally directed anger. Many children will tell their parents "I'm going to kill you" when they are angry with them. I wonder if maybe he said he wanted to kill himself because it was himself that he was angry with? He is angry with himself...that is definatly what it is. I try to give him a little space then comfort him and give him lots of hugs and tell him I love him very much..he usually gets much better. Thanks for the input!!
My son is just barely 5 and has said that he wants to die for about 6 months. He started saying "I want to die" while hitting himself. Sometimes he just hits himself and says he's bad. We told a developmental ped. about it and he said you don't really think he wanted to die, do you? We also told our new ped. about it also. He was a little more concerned and told us to monitor his behavior. Be careful if he goes for a knife, etc. My son was not on any medication at the time. We have tried 2 stimulants and neither have worked. Just a couple of weeks ago we tried Concerta and it was a nightmare. He actually said he wanted to get a knife and stab himself, which was a step further than he had ever gone before. We stopped the Concerta that day. He only has these episodes when he is really upset with a tantrum (not getting his way). Usually once he has been admonished for his behavior, the self-hatred/injury ensues. It's terrible. I really don't think he wants to die, but I think he doesn't know how to deal with having bad behavior. We're waiting to see a psych. in a few months, so until then we're monitoring his behavior.
The medicine might be making your son's emotions worse, but I think he's probably using the words "I want to die" because he can't verbalize it any other way. We can only imagine what they are going through. It has to be so much for their little shoulders to carry.
Please don't wait until next month to see a doctor. I am afraid for your child because you may not be with him when this happens again and he could get hurt. This is why I took my son off his meds: he was on vyvance and started to fly into rages, chase his brother and sister with an exacto knife (throwing it at them) and saying he would kill himself. He is only 8 and his sister is 6 and brother will be 9 tomorrow. The doctor (a neurologist) took him off immediately, put him on large doses of adderalXR plus other meds and it started to happen again. It frightened me so I told the neurologist that I was going to wean him off the adderalXR. He is off totally, not great behavior, but nothing like before. We have an appointment with a psychiatrist this week and next and an appointment with a behavioral psychologist March 3. Plus, I changed his diet to avoid preservatives, food coloring and high fructose corn syrup.
Jon still gets angry and will run from me. i am afraid he will run into traffic one day so when he does this I turn around and walk away. This usually stops him from running.
I'm going to reply here without reading all of the responses, I'm busy here at work but definitely wanted to respond to this thread.
We had a one-time similar situation. I headed straight to the dr. Turns out, a med my son was on for a cold had not, not, not mixed well with his Adderall and it sent him into a quick depression! He was only 6 and said he wanted to die. I about fell through the floor!
You need to check with your doctor. You can love them and it may be for show/attention/frustrations, but have it looked in to. As we all know, it's better to be overly cautious than sorry! But hugging and reassurance is always good in abundance, so keep with that idea, also!
I too am going to respond without reading all the messages. My son also said he wanted to die when he first started meds (adderall then conerta). It was horrible but basically it was rebound. We discontinued the meds for a few months and then tried Ritalin LA. It worked well with very little rebound. I would really discuss this with the doctor because either two things are happining. One he needs to learn to deal with frustration in a better way (think how miserable he must feel). Or, two it is a rebounding issue and the meds might need to change.
My son's doctor said to always take seriously a child who says they want to die. You need to find out why this is happening.
My heart goes out to you because it's a real struggle to help these wonderful children.
I wonder if it's just a manifestation of internally directed anger, rather than externally directed anger. Many children will tell their parents "I'm going to kill you" when they are angry with them. I wonder if maybe he said he wanted to kill himself because it was himself that he was angry with?
It never hurts to check things out with the doc, but I wouldn't make too big a deal out of it since it happened while he was in a rage. You don't want him to start saying it more often just to get a reaction.
So here was my day yesterday....my 7 year old son was on him medication and we had a nice day just mommy and me planned since I was off work. We went to lunch togeather (only I ate b/c he has no appetite when on meds) then we went to the park (had lots of fun) then we went bowling (great time) then we went to Walmart to pick up a few things well that is when it went downhill. He brought with him a crossword puzzle book and went into a rage b/c he wasnt doing it right. He was soo angry, crying, yelling at me (quietly) then he said he wanted to kill himself..well he never said that before and it scares me that he is saying this and soo young. When he gets in these rages he will always say things like "you don't love me" "get away from me" latley it's been "Im going to run away" then the big one "I want to kill myself". Well he finally calmed down but of course it was all my fault. That evening I told my husband and he didnt think it was a big deal saying that he was just angry and he prob. said it himself when he was young. I am concerned thinking if he is saying this at 7 can you imagine when he is a teenager?? What do you think about this and what do you say when your child says he wants to kill himself??Personally I think that anytime someone of any age says something about wanting to kill themselves, it HAS to be taken very seriously.I take it that this is not the first time your son has been in a rage like this?
Is this something that started recently? Or has it been going on for a while? How long has he been taking medication? Did the rages start before he was on medication or after? I also wonder if there might be a connection between not eating (due to appetite loss) and getting into a terrible, terrible mood (?)
I think I would talk to his doctor right away and/or get a referral to a psychiatrist.
Thats what I feel that it needs to be taken seriously. He gets in these rages (angry-face turning bright red, crying, blaming it all on others) from time to time..prob. about 3 times a week usually in the evening so may be rebound. He has been getting very angry for about a year like this. He started and was dx last spring. He is seeing a psychologist next month (have to wait for a preexisting b/c of insurance-frustrating). So not sure what to do..we really don't have the money to pay full price???? What do I say to him when he says this stuff (killing himself and running away). I stayed very calm yesterday and told him that if he ever did that then we all couldnt be in heaven one day and that God would be very angry. That evening when I told my husband what he said my son acted embarrassed and said he said he would kill himself not that he was going to do it..but still. I just feel like my husband felt it wasnt a big deal but I feel it WAS a BIG deal..he is only 7.
I'm not an expert at all, but it seems to me that if the rages started last spring and he was diagnosed and started medication at that time, then the medication is not working right for him and something needs to change. I think that's great that you have an appointment next month; that's pretty soon.I think it I were in your position, when he got into one of his rages and started saying those things I would just say, "I love you, and we can talk about this when you've calmed down." And just keep repeating until he's calmed down. Nothing you say when he's in a rage will get through anyway. When he's calm I would maybe ask him what he thinks made him feel so upset (?) And maybe tell him that you will be taking him to see the doctor so that you can find out what is causing him to have such powerful upsetting feelings and get him help so he feels better and is able to handle his emotions better (?)
Good luck.
ummm, like your husband, i'm not sure that i would necessarily make too much of a fuss about it if he was saying it when in a frustrated, angry rage.
i don't know whether that is good advice but i would assume that if you make a large deal out of him saying it - then he will presumably say it again and again if it has an effect and a reaction from you. that said, i guess you reassure him again and again that you DO love him - just generally in the course of the day.
but it is probably very sensible to check and re-check that the medication is working well for him and not harming him/causing these rages in the first place. i guess you might always be able to try a med-break in the holidays and see how it is different, if at all????
my neice used to get in absolute rages too when something she was doing wasn't "perfect" but sometimes you could distract her before she went into total meltdown over it, for example, having screwed up her drawing in fury and thrown it onto the floor about to lose it:
me: "it doesn't matter - it doesn't have to be perfect"
"yes it does"
"well - i think what's important is that you are making the effort to do a nice drawing for your friend. not that it's perfect"
"no, it's not" cross/cross angry/angry (i have to say it makes me laugh when she gets cross - as it goes - but i hide that very well)
"well, what's important then?'
"looking after animals is important!"
came totally out of the blue...
then again i am her aunt so she is probably holding onto her behaviour a little with me that she might not necessarily do with her mother. parents being the ones that you can really let it all out with.
but that managed to distract enough - because then i asked her brother what he thought was important "i think looking after your family is important" and her other sister who is always the pacifier "well, i think looking after family AND animals is important..."
so with that, i could get out another paper and draw the stupid cats for her to colour in (again) for her picture for her friend.
i guess on some levels it is important for the parent not to get drawn into the emotion, to retain a level of stability and almost flippancy/insouciance so that the whole situation is not allowed to escalate if possible. oftentimes with my neice, i notice, that my sister almost expects or gives her that opening to have a melt-down. rather than just pushing on and dismissing the situation.
particularly with transitions (where my neice was specifically bad) instead of just pushing it through "ok, we're not going there now we're going to X instead" and before my neice can even think about it, moving on and the plan is already in action - my sister almost stops, looks at my neice, to wait for the reaction from my neice and then ABSOLUTELY gets it.
i know i am the aunt but i have never, ever been in a situation where my neice has lost it with me when i am with her on her own (and thank goodness because i would never, ever want to be she is completely, totally, utterly IMPOSSIBLE really uncontrollable - can't be touched, approached or anything and would run right into the mouth of a lion or the path of a speeding car, i reckon when she is in one of her 'states' - impossible doesn't begin to describe it) - and being with an aunt probably means she is making an effort to keep a hold of herself whereas she doesn't feel that necessity with her mom but then again there is a part of my sister that just somehow allows the situation to become a scene because she gets as emotionally tense and involved and is expecting it.... she is as much a participant of it, in a certain way, as my neice.
i like to tease my neice - because i DO love her - i love all my neices and nephews funnily enough. but on the flip side of that i spend an awful lot of time with her - i play cards and make believe, let her drag me around the house doing i don't know what, bossing me around, sit next to her while watching videos and just sit in her room, on her bed as she plays horses and yaks away to me, i just spend time with her and with all of them. not necessarily doing anything much. but i enjoy it. they make me laugh.
and i think if you just spend time doing nothing with children - or they can be doing something but you're just chilling, just kinda being there but with them rather than focused entirely on some other chore - it is quite comforting for them, no pressure to DO or something just being... and quite calming. weirdly, as an ADDer, i dislike stimulation, i find it over-tiring, exhausting, wearing and i like QUIET, doing nothing and sometimes i wonder whether children now don't get enough time devoid of stimulation. time just to NOTHING. simply nothing.
it might help??? i don't know. good luck with it - and i am sure he will be a GREAT teenager. sweet, affable, helpful, gorgeous and all the rest!
I laughed out loud when you (chjones) mentioned about the drawing your neice does and if it's not perfect she melts down...well that is exactly what our son does. He will not drawl unless he absolutely has to like for homework because if it's not perfect he will have a meltdown throws the paper, crayons across the room crying ect. So we avoid drawing if all possible. He does get very frustrated with himself if something isnt right and I think that is what threw him into the rage yesterday b/c he messed up on the crossword puzzle. I feel bad and tell him nobody is perfect. I have been very calm lately with talking with him if he gets mad or frustrated and it does seem to help. I do think he said " I want to kill myself" because he knew it would upset me. He also says lots of other things when he gets this way..like " I don't love you", " I am going to take away something I made you" , I was going to buy you a ring for x-mas and now I am not because you are a mean mommy" ect. You get the idea.
go and get the card and then think "ugh, this card is rubbish, it's ugly and foul" so then find something else again "and think no, i can't send this" so then two weeks or more has passed and now you think "ugh, it is TOO late to send a thank-you letter now. i can't send it" so you end up spending five times as much on something than any non-perfectionist and yet coming across as five times as rude - because you never even sent a thank-you letter!
the MOST useless trait. if i could find a way to get rid of it, i would and pass that advice onto my neice too..... in the end, she is so smart i reckon she will find her own coping mechanisms and be passing them on to me instead! oh the next generation! i kinda love being old (well ya know in my thirties!)... it's nice having a generation beneath you and watching them grow.
especially as they aren't MY children. so much easier!
I don't have any insight but it is comforting for me to read this. My daughter definitely has that perfectionist thing, too - and was 3 when she first said she wanted to kill herself. As we have had two suicides in the family (which she knows nothing about, I'm certain) this was a nightmare to hear and something we took to heart, while trying not to overreact.
Actually now, at 6, the suicidal talk has lessened quite a lot, but occasionally comes up. Like you Nutmeg, it's so very hard, especially in the moment, to know how to react - trying to strike that balance - conveying your concern, your absolute rejection of the idea, your immense love for the child - and all without making too big a deal of it so that they start using those words to get your attention and affection.
It's great hearing the perfectionist POV chjones - really it does me good to hear you and you sound like you've got a real knowledge of and acceptance of yourself. I hope that someday we'll make it through to that place for my daughter. It's so hard to convey how talented and gifted you think a child is when they're too busy not living up to whatever idea they have in their head.
Nutmegmom,
My son has said the same thing before when he was totally angry. He was around 7 or 8 and it about gave me a heart attack. I found when he said it again and I told him that I would have to take him saying that very seriously and we would have to talk to the doctor about it he stopped doing it.
I think he did it to upset me. He would always take it back when he was calm. I would be more concerned if your son was saying that when he was depressed. Of course mention it to your doctor and see what he says. A med. change may help with his melt downs. My sons appetite is terrible during the day also, but if I dont make him eat something he has alot more trouble controlling his temper.
It is amazing some of the things they will say to you when they are upset. One time my son was in a rage and he yelled at me that he was not going to take care of Daddy and me when we were old and he would let us lay around in a poopy old person diaper all day!!! Well needless to say I am lucky I had other children to choose from when the time comes for me and dad to wear diapers
Hang in there,
Gail
Thank you for not making me feel alone in this. That there are others unfortunatly that have said the same thing. Good advise Gail1968 on telling him that you will take him to the doctors if he says it again. That may work for my son. It's just so scary when you hear your child say something like that, it makes me think of those teenagers that go on those shooting rampages..I don't know why but it's scary when your little one gets soo angry especially at themselves. I wish I could take it all away from him and make it all better. Funny Gail1968 on when your son said about not taking care of you when you guys got older..my son said something similar once but he is an only child..oh goodness..I guess we are destined for a home.