Friendship problems with ADD Daughter | ADHD Information
Hi, alisonsmom.
My DD and DS have experienced challenges similar to those of your DD.
My DD and I had a particularly tough time with a mom and daughter across the street (daughter was a playmate, fellow Girl Scout, etc.), who were both know-it-alls. This is past tense, as both the girls are now young women, but I can relate to what you're saying. My suggestions: Stand your ground, keep an open mind, continue to be supportive and understanding of your DD, and personally, I don't believe it is the end of the world to speak up and appropriately express your feelings and reservations to the girl's mom; it may make a difference. Sounds like you already have some good ideas for enlightening the young girl.
About discussing ADHD with others: My DS struggles with ADHD. I don't really discuss his dx much. I truly don't feel many people understand what these kids experience; they may misinterpret what ADHD is. Unfortunately, I have seen it to be true (as others have stated) that these kids may become the scapegoat.
Best of luck to you. Keep up with the good communication and attempts at problem solving. This situation, too, will pass.
I notice that there are many more posts/issues to do with boys than girls. One issue I don't see a lot of posts on is friendship issues with girls. So I am looking for some experienced voices. 
Briefly, my daughter is 11 y.o. and we were both diagnosed ADD about a 1 1/2 years ago. She uses the Daytrana patch.
For the most part she has seen a lot of improvement in her friendships since beginning the medication, but of course it is not a cure all. She gets easily irritated with certain personalities and can be quite blunt and mean. Plus she severely overreacts to these irritations and it really makes any conflict/argument worse. This has caused a problem with a girl she takes dance with on the weekends.
Nearly every weekend they have some sort of conflict or argument and it usually ends with her mom telling me how my daughter had been mean to her daughter. It started out tactful, but now it is happening far too often to remain that way. She knows my daughter has ADD but thinks that means she gets hyper and won't pay attention to anyone. So, as a result, she simply thinks my daughter is a little brat and is contstantly mean to her daughter for no reason.
Her daughter is a bit of a know-it-all when it comes to dance, and she has a habit of correcting others; telling them how they are doing the wrong things. Plus she has gotten into a habit of parroting my parenting. If I tell my daughter to carry her own dance bag, and she gives me a problem about it, this girl jumps in and says,"Just do waht your mom says." This just pushes my daughter over the edge and that will be all it takes for them to go at. We HAVE to try to get along with this girl and her mother because dancing is extremely important to them both and neither is going to be willing to give it up and go to another teacher. Plus, I LIKE the mom - we are friends. But I think we will not be friends for much longer if the girls continue to have issues.
Any suggestions? 
I have had several conversations in the past to try to explain how ADD affects my daughter's behavior socially. The more often these incidents occur the less she seems to believe me. I have a hard time trying to get across that this is not a case of speaking to a child once and having the problem corrected. It is an ongoing process for us and "normal" expectations cannot be applied.
I am going to ask she have a chat with her daugher about letting me do the parenting for my child - although I appreciate the attempt to help me out 
I really think her daughter thinks she is helping, but it's really just bossy.
I am looking for a good way to describe to her how ADD makes this type of thing so much more complicated and takes longer to resolve.
hi alisonmomi think all it may take is a little bit of hubris and understanding from your side.
so rather than trying to "explain" or "justify" her behavior to your friend - just be all out honest and say:
"you know what - i really KNOW how hard it is and must be for you, as a mom, - and it is difficult for me too with alison being ADD, but i REALLY appreciate the fact that we still make the effort to do this together - it means an awful lot to me - i want you to know that, i want to thank you for your support...."
because that is probably all it would take - if it were me i would also add
"i understand it must be tough to have to sit there and HEAR someone bullying your daughter. being mean and bullying to another child isn't acceptable - ADD or not - we're working on it, but alison doesn't get it sometimes SO feel FREE to intervene. feel free to tell her to stop it. tell her that that behavior is not acceptable around your child - as often as you want when she is in your car"
on some levels having it from another adult (as opposed to her own mother) is an even stronger reinforcer.
i can kinda HEAR the defensiveness in your post - and i understand it but just leave the defensiveness at the door. it DOESN'T matter what/who/how is right or wrong. it just doesn't matter. i would advise being funny, thankful, open, honest, truly honest ----- rather than over-sensitive, tetchy, "it's HER daughter not MINE that sets it off...." attitude
i think she has been sweet the friend - and i think, it's important for your daughter that you try and maintain this relationship with the girl who is her age - especially if they do get on from time to time????
if i was the other parent in that situation, i would've told her off already!!!!!!! both of them!!!!! don't care whose fault it is!!!!! and if it continued in my car - then i wouldn't allow any speaking at ALL.
but what would i know??????
but i reckon - if you want the relationship to continue stop with the explanations/the justifications/the descriptions. just say "i appreciate your thoughts and perspective on the situation an awful lot" and DO listen to her she probably does have a interesting/possibly helpful perspective on it - and hope the two girls can stay friends.
having a conversation with all four of you - i think that is a great idea... after you and your friend have discussed things. just a non-judgemental "from now on, in the car there is silence or there is positive, pleasant chat from you guys - not interested in who is at fault, or who does it. that's just the way it is from now on - cos i get ear-ache!" why not??????
and with your ADD daughter i would get her to repeat back to you what you had said (if she is that ADD type where sometimes it doesn't quite sink in so it helps if you ask them to repeat it back to you).
i was with one friend's child in the car with her son and daughter and the son was going on and on and on to the daughter "you're ugly, you're stupid, your face" --- it was REALLY irritating and i wanted to scream but instead i turned around and said "alex, i want you to see if you can give 10 compliments to your sister"... well, he spent so long trying to think of even one we had fortunately arrived at home before he spoke again! how my friend bears it, i can't imagine! but it doesn't seem to bother her so much, as it goes ---
still hope it all works out for you with your dancing friend.
chjones39498.559537037oh sheesh - i just re-read the post and realised it has NOTHING to do with driving/car-pooling to dance lessons which is how i read it at first.
ah well. such is the ADD...
still never mind. hope it all works out anyway.
chjones-
Thanks for your input. I appreciate the suggestions. And you are right, I am REALLY defensive. Hehehe. I have already done most of what you suggested (using humor, being honest, giving her the green light to step in if she feels she needs to). All of that is wearing a bit thin now -- hence my seeking some new perspective. After a conversation with her about this I feel like I am the only one working at it, you know?
(especially if she is a bit of a goody-goody as is indicated)?maybe you can really try from your daughter's side --- put the onus on her as it were and say "i want you to be the better/bigger person here". "and no matter how irritating you find X's interference/showing-off/goody-goodyness just see it as her personality --- the same way it upsets you when people judge you or dismiss you over your personality sometimes don't do the same thing to her... just think that's ok, that's just X being herself again!"
(my nephew has a terrible habit of saying to his brother "oh, just STOP being yourself")
maybe you are the only one working at it - it's boring but it may work in your favour in the long run..... and the other girl probably is useful in that she makes your daughter acknowledge the fact that she is being mean, that is - she doesn't let her get away with it or just ignore it - she kinda calls her on it, which might be a good thing in the end. who knows?
good luck with it!
I think that when people know our children have adhd (and then their children know, because people talk at home and kids hear) all behavioral issues or conflicts get put on our kids, whether or not they deserve it. I would simply say, the next time you hear this little girl parenting your child,"You know,______, my daughter has a mom. You need to let me handle it and worry about yourself." Don't try to get the mom to say it to her daughter because clearly she won't, and she believes that her daughter is blameless. When the mom starts on you, let her know,"Your daughter's attitude and behavior bring on much of the conflict between these girls. We are working on not letting these things irritate my daughter so much. What can you work on to help the situation?" I know this will make things tense for a while, but your daughter needs to know that not everything is her fault and won't be blamed on her. BPQW39498.6121296296
There are definitely times when unfair blame is handed to kids with ADD/ADHD. Especially when they are as loud as my daugher is when she's misbehaving ... it's hard not to notice it!
I've had lots of conversations with everyone about the girls not getting along. She has always comes to me with problems - I never go to her - I know I carry a lot of the blame because I haven't spoken up when her daughter has done annoying things - reluctant to create conflict because I know what it feels like when someone criticizes your child and tells you something they've done wrong. I know I need to say something - and I have probably left it too long.
I want to have a nice, non-threatening, blameless speech to say: Yes, my daughter bears responsiblity and that is something we work on every day. There are some things that your daughter does that exacerbate the problem, so perhaps you could have a chat with her too.
I really want to minimize this as much as possible. And to be honest, I know the suggestion to have all 4 of us sit down together is a good one, but I REALLY REALLY do not want to do that. I feel like it will make this much bigger than it needs to be. I just want her to know that I am totally aware of my daughter's part in this but that improvement is not going to happen overnight. And coming to me every single Saturday to detail what she's done is truly beating me down. Her daughter needs to see how some of her actions have contributed and try making changes too.
Well, my daughter isn't ADHD, but I have a 12 yr old daughter and have been through a good share of "friend" issues. Personally, if you and the mom are friends (as I am friends with many of my daughters friends mothers) I would sit down and have a chat with the mother - without the girls present.
Explain to her that your daughter is offended by her daughters "direction" and that it would really help if she just didn't give any direction to your daughter. Also let her know that you are the parent, and that it upsets YOU when her daugher repeats your parenting to your daughter. That takes the girls out of the equation.
Let her explain to you any things your daughter is doing that are getting on the nerves of her daughter. I am sure she knows of some things your daughter could do differently that would help her daughter get along too. Try and come up with some ways to help them get along.
Then, sit down all 4 of you together and discuss it after you and the other mother have agreed on some things you can work on. Let the girls have their input as well, but don't let it boil down into an argument. Just matter of factly set out some guidelines.
I run a kids ministry with 70 kids in it each week, as well as a girl scout troop of 19 - and we have had MANY issues with the kids, let me tell ya. This has been the best way of handling it that I have found.
Good luck! Hope it works for ya!
This might sound rude but I dont know how else to ask it. (sorry) Where are oyu when these things are going on? Are you seeing it happen or are you just getting info from the other mother?I don't think your question is rude. The answer is both. There have been times that we have both been standing right there when it happens. Other times are when neither of us is there. I think she doesn't see that her daughter's behavior is of any consequence.
I argue: Yes, my daughter was rude and snotty. Don't think I didn't notice it. And don't think it won't be addressed. BUT irrespective of HOW my daughter told her to quit doing something, she did ask the other girl to stop. What happens is that the other girl makes a joke (I am sure it is as a result of my daughter shouting and embarassing her) and says something along the lines of, "Gosh! I was just teasing/joking. Don't be such a spaz!" -- but will continue doing the very thing that she was asked to stop doing, each time smiling and joking and acting like my daughter is just such a grumpy spaz that she cannot take a joke.
There's a child down the road from us that used to play with mine and no matter how hard I tried I could not get him to quit the "mean" stuff. The mother didn't "see" a problem. I told my son to ignore him and we practiced that alot. Whenever something happened on the bus or at rec or school, if my son ignored the other, I rewarded him. Eventually the other child stop bugging mine because he wasn't getting any reaction. Not easy with ADD I know. Sounds like this girl is just toxic to yours and sometimes you just can't fix it.
I agree, toxic.
I think your daughter has been labeled by these two. Your's has ADHD and is going to be at fault just for having the diagnosis.
Can you move on? If the mom is REALLY your friend, you'll find out by staying away.
I would also consider changing your daughter's dance schedule.
This isn't fair to YOUR daughter.
This is one of the reasons people don't like to tell anyone of their children's ADHD. If they didn't know, would they treat her different??!! Just a thought.
I am really working on the "ignore" tactic - hoping with some practice she will be able to simply walk away. If we can stay away from the blame game, I think we can improve the situation by looking at how we can minimize the time they spend together and agreeing that some of this has to worked out by them and not us. Her daughter has gotten results by complaining to her, so you can't blame her for continuing to do it -- but I know she really feels her daughter is a victim -- she has talked in the past about kids at school who "for some unknown reason" have singled out her daughter for harassment. I'm always tempted to tell her it's because her daughter can be a real know-it-all and it rubs kids the wrong way. And it usually doesn't help that she's right about whatever she is being a know-it-all about!
Changing the dance schedule won't be an option - that's why I am really keen to work this through and minimize the drama. The type of dance our daughters do is fairly unique (not the typical jazz, tap stuff) and there is one class on Thursday nights, one on Saturday mornings. That is it. There are other teachers in the area but none are even close to being as good. This is a very competitive dance and both girls are quite good.
My daughter is having similar problems. She is about the same age. Kids can be mean. Yes my daughter can be annoying at times. For a long time I also thought she was the primary instigator. Yes she is easily drawn into conflict and confrontations, but when these situations have been looked into, she has not initiated the situation. Quite often, she just wants to fit in so badly she will go along with the others. Too many times I think its an easy out for other kids, parents and teacher to place blame on an easy target. She also does not have the social skills to know when she is being bated and to just walk away. She even puts up with other girls treating her badly just to be a 'friend.' We have had several discussions about what a real friend is and how a real friend should treat you. Her psychologist also addresses these areas w/her. I also have been encouraging the 'just walk away' or 'just ignore them,' response, but this is incredibly hard, particularly when its not reinforced by others.
Would the other mother think it was 'OK' for her daughter to boss around any other child?
I don't have any sollution for you, and would love to hear any other suggestions as we deal w/similar situations. Particulary any suggestions on how to help my daughter respond to these situations.
It is more and more apparent that the issure lies with the other girl.
Keep coaching your daughter and walk away. The issue is not with your daughter or you, it is obvious!!
You are 100% right when you say they are easily drawn into conflict. That is such a great way to describe it. In the 3rd grade my daughter had a lot of problems with the other girls. I finally asked her teacher point blank if my daughter was the instigator. If she was, I would be dealing with this in a much different manner than if she is not. The teacher admitted that she was often reacting to something they had done to her.
My daughter wanted to fit in but she would get too mad and walk away. This resulted in a lot of time spent alone 
In our situation, with the dance girl and mom, I think they have the idea they should "help" by taking a mothering attitude, you know? The mom is older than me by probably 3-5 years. Her daughter is older than mine, but only by 2 years. Regardless, I think they see it as helpful to instruct and direct us by way of their superior experience and non-ADD brains.
I am also ADD, and adults behave the same way to me that the other children behave to my daughter. I hate it. It really gets under my skin that people think my ADD entitles them to a superior attitude as thought I can't get through life without someone telling me what to do. I am not making lots of friends lately because I see how belittling people are to me
You mention that the "other" girl is two years OLDER than your daughter is age wise. From what I live and have read, our adhd'ers are usually socially more immature than those without adhd. That is something that is also going to get in the way with this girl.
You know I would just keep bringing her to dance, have your daughter enjoy the class and you get a coffee while they dance, unless you need to stay. If so, then bring something to read so you can appear busy!
Fortunately my daughter doesn't wrestle with the immaturity issue. Only because - I think - she is an only child. But I believe the other girl has social issues of her own. Her mother said neither of her girls has ever had close friends and she doesn't encourge them to either. Makes me wonder if they know how to be friends themselves, thus exacerbating our situation.
This past Saturday I made sure my daughter had plenty to eat before class (low blood sugar really plays a factor in her attitude) and put on her Daytrana patch with plenty of time for it to "kick-in" before class. It did help quite a bit. We were late to class (par for the course really ... hehehe) and as she joined the group this problem girl commented, "Late. As usual." Remarkably my daughter ignored her. *heavy sigh of relief* I just coached her a bit before class, preparing her to react with the "ignore" tactic. I think some of the problem was that she felt I blamed her and took the other girl's side. Now after several conversations she is feeling a bit more secure in my support.
I have a bossy know-it-all daughter too, and I am friends with many moms of the same age children (8). It is definitely embarrassing, but I feel at least my daughter is getting some semblance of friendship from these group interactions, some playdates and she is practicing social skills on these other kids even if they are not really friends. I find that if you compliment your friend's child or even themselves, the person drifts off in a dream about how wonderful their kid is, and gets you off the topic of how rotten your daughter was being that day. You might want to try it, it works sometimes to deflect criticism...I am feeling better about the whole thing now that I don't feel like I am a big failure/problem. Also, I have been "coaching" myself so to speak ... hehehe. Making sure I have prepared responses for this girl when she tries to step in on my parenting -- just smiling politely and saying, 'I can handle this. You go on and we'll catch up.' That way I have told her that her input is not needed and it sends her away from us so she doesn't sit and watch. I am hoping it will do the trick.
I am also working on an explaination that informs people without soundling like I am making excuses. And at the same time gets the message across that I don't need your parenting tips thanks anyway.
alisonmom,
I don't even tell anyone that my dd has ADD but that is a personal decision. This girl is a bully. She has found out your dd's weaknesses and is bating your dd. She makes herself feel like she has a higher status if she puts someone else down. I keep my dd away from these kids because it lowers my dd's status and soon other girls are adding their abuse.
I was once timid about reprimanding other children but it gets easier. She's way out of line correcting an adult and her mother should be concerned. I would ask the teacher to keep the two separated. I would also tell the teacher that your dd is getting bated.
This girl is a blatant bully. As the girls get older, they get more sneeky.
Sorry if I am repeating all that everyone has said. I don't have time to read all the posts.
Terry
I have become much more careful about letting people know about her ADD. I have discovered just how judgemental people can be. The worst are those that believe "proper parenting" can correct your child and insist their methods are what is needed. Ugh.
This other girl is an extreme over-achiever. Being the best at everything she does is the most important thing in her life. So pointing out to everyone else how they fall below the perfect standard (HER standard) is ego-inflating to her. Both parents encourage this over-achieving and perpetuate it. Lucky for us they are only together on Saturdays for dance - they don't go to school together. There are a lot of ways I can minimize their contact and I'm going to do exactly that.
Girls can be particularly sneaky - I agree. I am sometimes amazed at how young children learn that technique and how successfully they fool the adults in their lives. When my daughter had major issues with bullying in 3rd grade, I did quite a bit of research. What I discovered confirmed a lot of my suspicions - the ringleader is almost always the girl teachers least suspect and often do not believe such a nice, sweet, popular girl could bully anyone. They are very sneaky and careful. Bullying by girls is rarely seen by adults.