Losing trust in child | ADHD Information

I was told by my son's school that if you ask for an evaluation in writing, they have to do it.  Also, the next time you hide the phone, take the battery out.  I would try to put some positve reward into her cleaning her room.  Something she likes for each part she gets done.  Then if she maintains it for a period of time she gets something she really wants.  I would not include getting her phone back as a reward.  The school can evaluate for Learning disabilities, but NOT for ADHD. An ADHD eval has to be done privately.

[QUOTE=edbson]The school can evaluate for Learning disabilities, but NOT for ADHD. An ADHD eval has to be done privately. [/QUOTE]

I totally agree!!!!  And I have to add that if your daughter can keep track of a cell phone at age 12, then she should be able to clean her room.  She is just pulling a fast one.  I'd take the phone and toss it.  She has to learn to be more responsible, and with responsibilities comes privileges, you are doing right by taking the phone away.  I'd take it away and give it to her when she is older and more responsible.

I respectfully disagree about the phone. Keeping track of a cell phone and cleaning a room are two completely different types of activities. If a room is really a mess, it takes a lot of organizational skills to clean it, and that's something that a lot of kids (and grownups) with ADHD really lack. By helping and supervising, you are teaching the child those skills in a positive way. To me, assuming that the daughter is "pulling a fast one" and should be punished seems likely to set up a negative chain of events. If you believe the worst in someone, that is probably what you're going to get.
IF I were going to issue any negative consequences for not cleaning the room, I would do something like taking away items that are left lying on the floor or not put away. Those are the things that the child is not taking responsibility for. However I would definitely help the child clean and organize and use positive rewards first.
IF the child were misusing the phone by using more minutes than she's supposed to or calling people she's not supposed to or making crank calls, then taking away the phone would be a logical consequence.
Personally, I like for my daughter to have a cell phone because it gives ME peace of mind. I know I am able to contact her wherever she is and that she is always able to reach me--or call 911--if she needs to.

My daughter is 12 as well ....

I wish I had a nickel for everytime school told us she DID NOT have ADD/ADHD.

I would get her evaluated on my own.  Through someone that specializes in the condition, we use a neurologist.

My daughter behaved similarly.  We piled on the punishments but the behavior did not change.  This is NOT NORMAL.  One day I looked at her and realized she just could "not do it", whatever it is at the moment.

By 11 she wanted help.  She knew she was different from all the other kids.  Her self esteem was zero.

I would certainly sit down and talk to her.  See if she can explain what is going on in her head.

I knew that my daughter had the condition before she was 2.  But I got push back from family, school and the doctors for many years.

My daughter is SIGNIFICANTLY improved on medication.  Not perfect.

If all else fails ... and this is a last resort ... why not give the meds a try.

My biggest worry is that she would enter her pre-teen years with no boundaries and unable to make good decisions.

 

I agree with above. You may have to "supervise" her cleaning. Give her task 1), clena uncer your bed and tell me when you're done. Then check it. Clean off your desk, then check it, like so.

My daughter is EXACTLY like this. I also would try to get her the priveleges back. Long term consequences dont really work. My new conseuquence with my daughter (13) is tot ake something away, Say computer time. I dont necessarily give a tiem frame. So you lost it for not doing what you were supposed to do for today. Starting now you can earn it back sooner rather than later by good behavior. At least they "try".  When you get into that "hole" of having taken everything away, they jsut dont care and nothing works. Consequences are best immediate and short term IMO. I personally would tel her you realize the conseuqnces were too drastic, and give her the opportunity to earn each thing back. Let her decide which, say the phone. Say ok, If you can get your clean (do it as suggested with supervision) you can get it back. Same with computer, same with T.V.. Give her one more behavior to work on to earn those things back.

 

She probably can't clean her room like that. I'd give her bins/containers and label each one plus any drawers. Help her get the room organized properly. Then make sure she picks up on a frequent schedule so it doesn't get so out of hand that she cannot get it together alone. My son cannot clean his room if it's in a state of utter chaos.

Try rewards and dump the consequences.

Who evaluated her? The school? You could have a child psychiatrist evaluate her.

I have tried using a list. This does work if I check on her regularly. The best thing has been a combination of a list and a timer, where she spends say 10 min. on just one little part, like cleaning off the dresser, then moves on. Having her work for rewards hasn't been successful. For instance, I told her that if she gets her chores done and keeps her school work up for X period of time she would get her contacts. Maybe I should of let her earn days towards the total one day or week at a time instead of a longer time frame, because she just couldn't do it. She's so up and down. Finally, she just gave up and told me to just forget about the contacts , it broke my heart. She so lives in the moment. Any longterm goal and you can forget it. It's the same with consequences. It's like she can't even keep the consequence in her mind, so she doesn't get it until right before she hits the wall. I am totally at a loss as to what to do. She is a sweet, funny, creative kid. She can always make me laugh. But I see her getting discouraged, having fewer and fewer friends (and the ones she has are younger or immature and bad choices). I know what I'm doing isn't working, so I guess that's why I'm thinking of going back to the psychiatrist. By the way, what they said was since she wasn't struggling in 2 different settings she wasn't ADD. Her other symptoms are: disorganized disaster area, constantly losing/misplacing stuff, no sense of time, easily distracted, careless with her work, the list goes on. I begged the school to start signing her agenda book so I would at least know what she forgets and they said no, she needs to learn to be more responsible. Ironically they put her in a small study hall where they work on organization and sign the agenda book because she barely passed her state proficiency tests. Mind you, I'm happy she's there but I had been asking for help forever. Several of her teachers this year admitted to moving her to a location in class to help her pay attention. Sorry to ramble, you get frustrated and worried about your child's future, and when people tell you "she's fine" you start to wonder if it's just you.

I would definitely get a second opinion.  It took us three evaluations before getting a diagnosis.  That teacher's report is part of the evaluation unfortunately.  After seeing two psychologists, our pediatrician finally made the diagnosis.  I think that the psychologists around here are afraid to diagnose ADD without a difinitive teacher-report.  Ours was always marginal but not definitive.

Kids with ADD respond much better to positive rewards.  We still do a sticker chart with my dd who is almost 12 and accummulated stickers allow them to visit the treasure box.  I personally don't insist on my kids cleaning their rooms but if they have a friend coming over they usually tidy it up a bit.  We've had to get real strick about messy up the common areas of the house.  They each get a sticker daily if they remember to pick up their clutter. 

It sounds like you are getting into some adolescent attitude issues also.  That confuses the picture.  Get her evaluated by a professional. 

I agree with everyone...she should be re-evaluated. 

So she is struggling in 2 settings. She should be re evaluated.

 

I agree 100%, FORGET long term goals they cant do it. Thats why a consequence needs to be for TODAY (only usually). Do what works best, if the list and timer work, sue them. You can still reward her for doing it. As ong as it got done. Try to forget how you want it done and just focus on whether or not it gets done. This is somethingI struggle with ALL the time. It is much harder with preteens and teens as we feel they "should" be able to do more, and some of our kids, just cant. Rewards will work, but they also should be small and immediate. If we can get this room done we can go out for an ice cream...............you might have to keep checking in on her, but she'll get it done.

I have a couple of pieces of advice.  

When you tell her to clean her room, why don't you give her a list she can check off of what to do.  I know, she should be beyond that by now, but it could be overwelming for her.

Secondly, since discipline isn't working, why not give her a goal to work toward?  Write out a contract with your expectations and the reward she will get when she reaches them.  Make it good so she will want to work on it.

Admit to her that you realize what you were doing before wasn't working, so you're both going to try something different.  As an act of good will give her back everything you took away for discipline, but only in limited amounts.  Tell her you will regularly check in, and if everything's on track you will reassess those limitations and you may up them.

Good luck!

I would have re evalauated. If the person doing the initial eval went only on the teachers word then it was NOT comprehensive.

Get a good Neuropsychologist and have an eval done. If it is not ADHD, then it may be something else.

I agree with the list and contract, kid with ADHD are being their peers emotionally and socailly, so she may not "get it" when you take things away, she cannot think that far ahead.

As far as getting the school to do an evaluation, I don't know if you can get them to do one if your daughter is doing "average," according to them. (It is frustrating that for so many things you really have to hit a disaster zone to get something done...) However you can ask your doctor to do an evaluation. This evaluation will include forms for teacher(s) to fill out (so if the teacher(s) don't see any problems, it will be hard to get an ADHD diagnosis). If the doctor diagnoses ADHD, you can then ask the school for a 504 plan based on a medical diagnosis of a condition that impairs learning. However if the school doesn't think it is impairing her, they don't have to agree to the 504 plan either. I think if I were you I would talk to teachers and principal about your concerns (include specific examples of the problems she's having). You can ask that she be evaluated and/or tell them you are having her evaluated by the doctor. When/if you get a diagnosis you can ask for a 504 plan with accommodations that you believe will help your daughter. If you don't get an ADHD diagnosis or if the school doesn't want to give her a 504, you can still ask for accommodations and teachers may be happy to do some simple things like allow more time for tests, allow her to turn in work late, seat her in a location with fewer distractions, sign off on an agenda, or whatever you think will help her.
A lot depends on the school and the attitudes and policies there.
I'm sure others can offer some different suggestions.
Good luck!
As far as treating your daughters the same, I personally think each kid is different and is treated as an individual. I can see how this would be difficult since your daughters are close in age. Mine are four years apart, one boy, one girl, and they're as different as night and day, so the fairness issue seldom comes up in our house. Given your situation, I think I would take the older girl out for icecream or something and have a little heart to heart. Explain that her sister is very different than she is and so "fair" doesn't have to mean "the same." Of course you want to reward your older daughter for her good work and achievements, but that doesn't mean that you can't reward your younger daughter for smaller achievements on her own path. Your younger daughter may have to work twice as hard to accomplish half as much. Maybe you could even reward the older one for being helpful and encouraging in regard to her younger sister, and have her speak to you privately if she has any problems with the "fairness" situation.
Good luck!
insipired for music, what is the 504 plan?Betty,
Look in the "ADHD Issues in Schools" forum. Someone just started a thread asking about 504s and IEPs a few days ago.
The Wrightslaw website is also a great place to find out about 504 plans and legal information pertaining to education.
Basically a 504 plan is a plan written at school to provide accommodations to help a child succeed in school. It is an individualized plan, so each one is different. It is a legal document, so once it is in place, teachers are required by law to do what it says.
Thanks to everyone for their replies. I have a couple more questions. How do I request the school to do an evaluation, and if she's not "failing" will they do it? I feel the school thinks she's just average or doesn't consistently try so they're not worried about her. I feel like I would have to stop doing all the help with organization, getting homework done, etc. and let her fail for them to care. They seem to think she'll pick up the slack and be more responsible. They just don't get it that she can't do it. Heck, it's been hard for me to get it, so I guess I understand. It took me forever to realize that she simply could not organize her room on her own. Secondly, I have an older daughter who's almost 14. How do you handle having different expectations for kids. I've always tried to expect the same from both, but I realize that's not fair to my 12 yr old with her issues, but her sister is SO about fairness, etc. She is a perfectionistic, organizational machine and a pleaser, so she thinks she should reap the rewards of that (which se does with privileges, etc) but that her sister isn't expected to meet the same standard. Any advice?I would write a letter to the CSE and demand screening or get your own private one done for they do a better job anyways then deal with CSE.  I was told by the psychologist that if you are punishing the same thing over and over no results chances are she may not be in control and getting help for her is a must at her age.  Un-treated is where the negative stories mostly come out go with your instincts. Yes, I agree with the others.
If it were me I would get her re-evaluated, and go with short term rewards and consequences, with a big emphasis on rewards.
If she needs help/supervision cleaning her room, then I would help and supervise (especially if the room is out of control). Do what you need to to help her succeed and get on track as a good person with hope and things to look forward to. If all she sees in her future is failure and loss of privileges, then she has no reason to try.
Don't make failing an option. My daughter inevitably wants to call a friend or go  to the library or park, or something. I say, "Sure you can, when (not if) you've finished _____________." It's an immediate reward, but no biggie, just stuff we would do anyway. Works like a charm for her.
Also, to me it's important to distinguish between things that are serious moral issues (like lying and taking things you're not supposed to have) and things that really aren't. If you give out harsh consequences for everything, than the child won't give any more weight to something that is really a serious issue.
Since you suspect ADHD, I would read up on it if I were you. I also recommend Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World.
I have a 12 yr old daughter. She was tested last year for ADD but mainly because her then 5th grade teacher said "she's fine" they said she was not ADD. I still suspect she is. I am at my wits end with her lately. She lost her cell phone privileges for not getting her room cleaned for several weeks (she had already lost her TV, computer privileges so it was the only thing left). By the way, this is one of the reasons I think she has a problem. She will sit in that room for days with no privileges and still not get the room done. She can do it if you supervise her like a 6 yr old. Anyway, she went thru my room and found the phone and took it. I was very hurt and angry. So she was grounded longer and told that if she messed up with the phone again she would lose it until her next birthday (10 mo. away). A huge consequence that I thought she would never ignore. Wrong. 2 wks later I find out she took the phone again, so I told her no phone till you're 13. Fast forward 2 weeks and the phone is gone again (I should have taken the phone to work, I know. I hid it in a cupboard and while she was home sick I think she called the phone and tracked it down). She swears she doesn't have it, but I'm pretty sure she took it to school and gave it to a friend to charge for her. Now the stupid thing about this is of course that you can't get away with taking your cell phone. Even if I don't notice it's gone, as soon as a bill comes with usage you're busted. She has no decent answer for her behavior. I suspect it's an impulse problem. Should I go back to the child psychologist? I was going to not let her try out for cheer, but it's her one activity, and honestly no matter what the consequence is I think she would do the same thing again. Any advise would be appreciated.