Venting!!! | ADHD Information
I was very frustrated today. Jon was adopted at birth- he was less than 24hrs old when we got him and we had almost no health info except we knew he was very preemie (almost two to two and a half months). Well, I called the adoption agency last week and asked if they could contact the birth parents who were 15 or 16 years old at the time. They told me if they couldn't find them they would hire a detective agency which we would pay for. Today the adoption agency called with the birth mom's phone number and said I could call her for info- it was OK with the birth mother. I called and called and she wouldn't answer the phone. But the adoption agency said they talked with her and she said she was very ADHD and so was her grandfather. That was the only info I have for the doctor. I would like to find out if she had any other disorder and what meds worked for her. I am hoping to reach her tomorrow.
Jon always has thrown temper tantrums. This evening i gave him one 25mg of Strattera out of the 50mg he is supposed to get. I will give him the other 25 in the morning. Maybe splitting it up will help. I had left a message for the psychiatrist but they never called back.
Can any of you please help me? At the behav psychol this morning he discussed that Jon may be bipolar becausde on a trait list he had 27 out of the 37 traits. Can an 8 y/o be adhd, bipolar and odd? What kind of meds can they put this kind of child on? If he is taking strattera, is it making the other stuff worse?
The beh psych also gave us the results of Jon's IQ and educational testing. He has a high normal IQ and no learning disabilities but his impulsiveness and other symptoms are getting in the way of his learning. He said Jon is a visual and tactile learner so sitting at a desk isn't cutting it for him. He is in 3rd grade but only testing out at a 2nd grade level. He suggested that we remove Jon from his school but my husband wants him to finish out the year if possibler. Dr. Pete is going to fax his findings to the psychiatrist today and call the school to speak to the principal.
Thanks everyone. It has been very stressful and I bet Jon is very confused by his feelings and actions.
YES, a child can have ADHD, ODD< and Bi Polar, and that may be ther reason he is having problems while on stims.randyjim, you and your family have been though so much, I am glad you at least can move forward now. The doctor will address the bipolar first, a lot his issues may get better once the mood disorder is under control. Once you go back to the psychiatrist he will work out a new med regimen for you guys I would think. This should hopefully be light at the end of your tunnel.
Thanks edbson and Diane V. It has been a difficult time. Jon is acting very silly and giggly today and is being mean to everyone giggling while doing so. It is very unnerving to me.
He did do his math homework without me having to hover and he did well. I don't know what motivates him the days he can do it and the days he can't.
What in heavens name became of these children when there were no meds and no understanding?
They were locked away in mental hospitals or hidden away by family members. They were abused and died early from the lack of understanding. And sometimes they grew up to be clinical depressed homeless people on the streets today. My 47 year old brother would have become one of the homeless, if my parents hadn't taken care of him, found him a home and continue to help him out with his bills.We have never used Stattera, but doesn't that take a while to get up to the correct dose. I also heard you have to bridge with your old meds while you titrating up. Can some of the strattera users share infor on this?if he's taking 50 I assume he's at target dose.
What is his weight? Lots of people split the dose, usually to avoid side effects. It shouldnt hurt taking 25 in the am and 25 in the pm, but I'm not sure you're reasoning for doing this? We give 40 in the a.m. and an 18 in the p.m., but are switching to a 60 mostly for convenience of one pill. She's been on it for almost 5 months so we're well past the ramp period.
How long did the ramp up period take? Did yo see any improvement in the first few days or did it take a couple of weeks. This way one reason we never thotght about trying it because I had heard the transition took a coule of weeks. We would not have survived that long a period.We saw improvement about week 2 and then continued improvement as time went on during the ramp. The thing that sares people is hearing the 4-6 weeks. That is wehn you'll se optimum results. We saw results within 2 weeks and each time we increased the dose we saw improvement within a few days. You could keep the child on the stimulant at the start of ramp. I didnt because I didnt want to mix meds unless we had to, so we went straight Strattera thinking we'd add the stim back if we wanted to and we dont.
His 9 y/o brother started telling him to calm down and stop running around and Jon threw a marker at him. P then went into Jon's room and thumped him so hard on his back that I heard it in the kitchen. Jon ran after him saying he was going to stab him with his pencil- then stopped and screamed: You can't do that to me, I'm a person, I have feelings, too."
Does this kind of thing happen between the children often? It seems like Jon is clearly frustrated with his brother and when he has a normal childhood reaction (come on, even "normal" children throw things at each other...it's not a knife!) his brother reacts back out of proportion with a hit that must have hurt. So now he's not only being told what to do by a sibling, he's getting hurt by that sibling, too. Maybe these flare-ups aren't all Jon's fault. It seems like Jon is aware that for some reason he has to accept correction and guidance from everyone, but has to also carefully control his reactions to that dominance. It must be utterly frustrating. I think that your other children may have gotten the idea that it's okay for them to parent Jon to a certain extent, which really throws a kink in the sibling relationship and diminishes Jon's standing in the family. Maybe some family therapy could help. This is just my opinion from reading your posts.
Way late into the night- around midnight, Jon and his brother were playing in bro's room very quietly so I think their relationship is OK. P knows when Jon starts to get out of control and how quickly it can escalate. And Jon has thrown exacto knives at his brother and sister. Two nights ago he took a knife and threatened P's genitals. Yes, we are seeing a psychologist to work on family dynamics. P has literally saved Jon's life more than once. No child should ever have to be put in the position that P is in. But the only alternative would be to send Jon somewhere to a live-in school and I am NOT going to do that. Right now I am hoping that with the proper meds all of us will be able to have a breather and regroup.
I will say one thing- this will make our family ties stronger when we are able to get through it. BPQW thank you for the insightful observations.
hey randyjim..... oh wow, i just wish you all the strength you need.just a thought, altho not sure if it will be useful or not --- are there any Cognitive Behavior Therapies that Jon could go to to try to "manage" his anger or something similar? maybe that is only for adults???
i have read here that some parents have found karate to be very helpful too - could that be an outlet at all? (not that i am intending to encourage further skill in hitting his siblings tho!) but i was very impressed by my neice's karate class - the teacher was phenomenal and the children absolutely jumped when he said jump. total control. was great to see how dedicated they all were and how much they enjoyed it too.
anyway just throwing out any old ideas in case it may help. i hope you have a better week.
i hate my ADD too, often enough (other times i am grateful for it)
as you say, in the past, people found ways to deal with it --- i don't think they were necessarily that effective tho. hope you find a solution...................... and get that breather. don't forget to breathe!!!!!
chjones39540.3007638889randyjim, he'll be ok, he's just a little boy. You're getting him the proper treatment he needs now so he can thrive. Imagine how out of control he feels. You are a saint in keeping the patience you've had.
randyjim I feel for you. You are trying so hard, and it might seem like you're running in place, and not making any headway, but that's not true. You are a proactive parent and this will all result in the best for Jon. Sometimes the tunnel with that light at the end seems soooo long, but the lights still on and you'll get there. I don't know very much about Bipolar but its my understand that stims don't work for kids that are Bipolar. I would also try to get a second opinion, not that the psych that you are seeing isn't great, but that's a significant diagnosis. He is very likely correct, but I have heard of kids with ADHD being misdiagnosed bipolar and vice-versa. Again, I don't know much about it at all, and if you feel like this psych is on the right track then that it was matters.
Thinking of you, Randy...
I know how annoying the silliness is. Will has just started doing this himself and it's so hard to discipline them when they are giggling..
Keep us posted...
Thank you, thank you, thank you! It has been a rough road these past few months and it is good to know I can vent without fear on this forum with all you great people!!
Jon woke up NORMAL this morning. He dressed himself without us asking, he was helpful, respectful, not argumentative- just great. When we picked him up he seemed a little hyper but not mean. Then, on the way home he started going downhill so fast that if I wasn't seeing it, I wouldn't have believed it. He is trying to do his book report and is running around like a tornado opening and closing doors, tearing up all his work and dinosaur pictures, talking crazy things. He is trying to finish that stinking book report one word at a time- even one letter at a time and it is killing him that he can't. You see- my husband promised him a new fishing rod if he finished it. Every one is on his nerves. His 9 y/o brother started telling him to calm down and stop running around and Jon threw a marker at him. P then went into Jon's room and thumped him so hard on his back that I heard it in the kitchen. Jon ran after him saying he was going to stab him with his pencil- then stopped and screamed: You can't do that to me, I'm a person, I have feelings, too."
I am a mess. He needs help so badly. Why does everything take so long? I am writing a disgusting and nasty letter to his principal and teacher tonight.
I'm sorry you guy are having such a rough afternoon/evening. I feel for you guys. It is so hard waiting and trying to find the right answers.My daughter used to react to the stress of the school work in a similar way. Some days all h#@ll would break loss. She really wanted to do the work, but just couldn't mentally handle it. Finding the right medication really helped her. Maturing and understanding herself better also has helped. She now is able to articulate when she can't handle something and we either let it go or come back to it later.
It's really ashame that the school won't be more accommodating. This another instance where scribing for him would probably help reduce the stress in your household.
How is Jon eating these days? You said you have a long drive home from school. try bringing a snack for the kids to eat on the drive home. Some of this behaviour sounds like rebound. A snack might help with this transition.
randyjim, I am so glad you guys have your psych appointment tomorrow. Poor Jon needs help so desperately, and maybe now all of you can try to get some semblance of normalcy back into your life.
Please keep us posted. I know so many of us think of you and your family often and we're all worried for Jon and your family.
RandyJim,Sorry I haven't read all the other posts yet, but from the ones I've read where you describe his up and down behaviors...... they sound like classic manic cycling to me, and I guess they've discussed the possibility of bipolar. Did they suggest a mood stabilizer? Like someone said, if he is truly BP and hasn't been stabilized for that, it may explain why all the stimulants were unsuccessful. Hang in there. If the psychiatrist knows what he is doing, he can get him stable and out of the cycling with the right med or med combo. Hugs to you all.
Okiemom
About the threats of killing himself...... back when my son was about 9 and at the height of his untreated anxiety.......... he would make "generalized" non-specific threats like "I wish I were dead" or " Everyone would be better off if I were dead", etc. One time in a fit of anger he too threatened to jump out of the back seat of the moving car. The psychologist was pretty clear with me that GENERAL statements, while scary and upsetting for a parent, are pretty common for these kids who have really maladaptive ways of coping with stress. Its when the threat becomes SPECIFIC in the details of how and when and why they will kill themselves that the professionals really start jumping. So..........based on the fact that Jon has made some specific references to using a gun, etc....... you definately need to report that.
Okiemom
Randy Jim........ the below list of behaviors are off a childhood bipolar website. Your doctor may have already discussed these with you. See which ones correspond with what you are seeing in Jon. Children with BP often cycle very quickly......with short bouts of wellness in between the up and down cycle.
What are the symptoms of bipolar disorder in children?
Bipolar disorder involves marked changes in mood and energy. Persistent states of extreme elation or agitation accompanied by high energy are called mania. Persistent states of extreme sadness or irritability accompanied by low energy are called depression.
However, the illness may look different in children than it does in adults. Children usually have an ongoing, continuous mood disturbance that is a mix of mania and depression. This rapid and severe cycling between moods produces chronic irritability and few clear periods of wellness between episodes.
Diagnosis is made using the DSM-IV criteria, for which there is no lower age limit. See section below for DSM-IV criteria. However, it becomes more difficult to apply the DSM-IV criteria to very young children.
Behaviors reported by parents in children diagnosed with bipolar disorder may include:
an expansive or irritable moodextreme sadness or lack of interest in playrapidly changing moods lasting a few hours to a few daysexplosive, lengthy, and often destructive ragesseparation anxietydefiance of authorityhyperactivity, agitation, and distractibilitysleeping little or, alternatively, sleeping too muchbed wetting and night terrorsstrong and frequent cravings, often for carbohydrates and sweetsexcessive involvement in multiple projects and activitiesimpaired judgment, impulsivity, racing thoughts, and pressure to keep talkingdare-devil behaviors (such as jumping out of moving cars or off roofs)inappropriate or precocious sexual behaviordelusions and hallucinationsgrandiose belief in own abilities that defy the laws of logic (ability to fly, for example)Dear Okiemom: I have the information from your posts. Thank you for looking them up. I don't know how many of the symptoms Jon has but I do know that an hour ago he wanted me to take him to a hospital. Poor child is all done in. He needs help asap. these are the one's Jon has frequently:
an expansive or irritable mood rapidly changing moods lasting a few hours to a few days explosive, lengthy, and often destructive rages separation anxiety defiance of authority hyperactivity, agitation, and distractibility sleeping little or, alternatively, sleeping too much bed wetting and night terrors strong and frequent cravings, often for carbohydrates and sweets dare-devil behaviors (such as jumping out of moving cars or off roofs) impaired judgment, impulsivity, racing thoughts, and pressure to keep talking grandiose belief in own abilities that defy the laws of logic (ability to fly, for example)I called my mother when Jon was running around the house saying over and over he wished he wasn't born, he was going to kill himself, he wanted to go to a hospital and she suggested to get him in a warm bath. I don't know why, but it worked. he is in his pj's and calm now but his hands and body are cold like ice.
the suicidal thoughts could easily be directly attributable to the Strattera (it has a black box warning on that) and there is no point treating him for bi-polar if it is a reaction to the meds.
i have also read it is important to taper off Strattera - not just to stop. i am sure you know all this already but here it is:
Manufacturer Eli Lilly & Co. announced that a black-box warning will be added to the drug’s label in the United States. Such a warning is the most serious that can be added to a medication’s label, and similar warnings will be added to the drug’s labels in other countries. The company said a study showed instances of suicidal thinking were rare.
In a statement, the FDA said it “is advising health care providers and caregivers that children and adolescents being treated with Strattera should be closely monitored for clinical worsening, as well as agitation, irritability, suicidal thinking or behaviors, and unusual changes in behavior, especially during the initial few months of therapy or when the dose is changed.”
(and from a UK site):Strattera has been marketed in the UK since July 2004 but has been available in the United States since November 2002. Worldwide exposure is estimated at 3.7 million patients as of November 2005. In light of the concern about the increased risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviour, a Europe wide review of available data on the risks and benefits of Strattera was initiated. This review has concluded that the overall balance of risks and benefits of Strattera remains positive in the treatment of ADHD in children of 6 years and older and in adolescents. However, in order to optimise the safe use of Strattera it is important that prescribers are aware of the following:
New Advice to prescribers
Seizures are a potential risk with Strattera and therefore it should be introduced with caution in patients with a history of seizure. Discontinuation of Strattera should be considered in any patient developing seizure or if there is an increase in seizure frequency. Reports of QT interval prolongation have been received in association with Strattera. Therefore, it should be used with caution in those with congenital or acquired long QT or a family history of QT prolongation. This risk may be increased if Strattera is used concomitantly with other drugs that produce QT prolongation, drugs that can cause electrolyte disturbances and those that inhibit cytochrome P450 2D6.
Reminder of previous advice Due to concerns about an increased risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviour, patients should be monitored for signs of depression, suicidal thoughts or suicidal behaviour and referred for appropriate treatment if necessary. There is a risk of rare, but sometimes severe, hepatic disorders. Strattera should be discontinued in patients with jaundice or laboratory evidence of liver injury, and should not be restarted.
The Strattera product information for prescribers (the Summary of Product Characteristics) and patients (the Patient Information Leaflet) are currently being updated to include appropriate warnings about the risk of seizures and QT interval prolongation.
Please report any suspected adverse reactions to Strattera via the Yellow Card Reporting Scheme to the CHM/MHRA.
(btw - QT is to do with heart rhythm abnormalities, i think. these types of adverse reaction is all in a tiny minority of cases but it is possible that Jon, unfortunately, is in that tiny minority who have a bad reaction to Strattera)
i am sorry if i am posting stuff you know already. i wish you both all the best...
chjones39541.0180208333
On the way home from school today Jon gave his sister a bloody mouth, told me he was going to jump out of the car and run away, he hoped his sister got electrocuted by lightning (there was a terrible storm at the time), was going to kill himself after he ate tuna fish, was going to kill himself by shooting himself with a pistol when he became a policeman...etc. When I asked him why he was going to kill himself he said that it was because no body liked him or needed him. I told him I loved him and liked him and needed him and he told me that he was going to wait to kill himself until after he could eat pizza.
I said he had to promise me he wouldn't kill himself. Right before we got home he told me he would not kill himself and that he loved me.
Have any of you had ADHD children act this way? Jon has an appointment with the psychiatrist tomorrow morning and I am hoping we can get some answers and some med that works.
you've made it this far, you'll make it!
At least you now have a solid diagnosis and a "reason" for all these behaviors and a plan to help him.
I am so happy that you now have an answer. I am kind of happy that Jon was acting out during the appointment, that shows them what is really going on. My kids could be dying at home and by the time we got to the doctor's office they are looking good and feeling good.
I am so happy that the doctor said pull him out of school. I was getting the impression that they didn't want to help Jon. I think they were adding to stress level big time. I read the homework thread. Are you going to home school for the rest of the year?
I still think it might be the medication. I am glad he is coming off of the statterra. The black box warning really scared me.
I wonder if you can enroll him the public school system and then see if you can get him enrolled in Hospital-Homebound program in your school system.You might need to talk to his doctor about it. It might be a good solution for Jon.
I am SO glad to hear that your doctor recommended pulling Jon out! And I think the mood stabilizer, once they tritrate the correct dose, will really help Jon. Poor thing....he himself knew something was not right.....thus requesting to go to a hospital. That is a profound statement from an 8 yr old.....he is very aware of what is going on and his need for help. Hang in there RandyJim. You are such a strong woman and awesome mother! I think you are on the right track!Okiemom
We are back from the psychiatrist with good news and bad news. The good news is we are discontinuing the strattera; the bad news is that the psychiatrist said that Jon is definately bipolar- and not just from the side effects of the strattera. Jon was very stressed from school and acted very weird in the dr's office. He is very manic. He is being put on depacote and we will adjust the meds over the next few weeks to months, then we will address the adhd. The dr told us since his birthmom had a bad reaction to stimulants also, that we can take a wait and see attitude as far as the adhd.
Also, he told us to pull Jon out of his school since they are stressing him out so much and are not willing to address or accommode him. The dr does not want Jon to be overstimulated in any way.
So as far as that goes; hopefully I will make it through the next few weeks.
Why couldn't the psychiatrist tell me what to do when Jon does really really horrible things? He just told me if Jon was a threat to himself to call 911 and have him hospitalized but that would be the last resort because of the things he would be exposed to. He just expects us to be able to handle really deviant and dangerous behavior.
First day on Depakote. First day of homeschool. We went over rainbows(prisms and roy g biv), fog and steam, math and football, balloon math, black tipped sharks. I timed him in running and counted how many times he could jump rope. We started some spelling and used a 'learn to type' computer program. He was OK but not eager to do certain activities- which I didn't push.
The fun started when we went to pick up his sister and brother at school. Jon grew progressively more hyper and angry and irritable. He was given time out when we got home. He then went outside (after the time out) and told the neighbors children he was going to kill them and kill their parents. Thank the Lord they didn't call the police. I looked for Jon and couldn't find him- he had come back into the house. I told him that the neighbors could have called the police and they could have come and taken him away. I am sorry if that sounded harsh but I was scared to death. I got him in a bath and gave him dinner and his meds. He is still awake bouncing off the walls in his bedroom. I know it takes a while to get the right med combo but I wonder if there is something I can give him to knock him out!!! I can't wait for three weeks from now.
Have you ever tried Risperdal? Will is taking that and I must say, so far, nothing.. It's suppose to help him get sleepy at night, but it's been 45 minutes at our new dose and he's wide awake. But I have a friend whose son takes it and he falls right to sleep.
Oh my Randy. It just seems like a no end situation. I am so sorry for you and Jon. It is good that you have finally found out WHY he is acting like this now you just need to be patient a little longer till you get the right med combo and you will be okay. Just remember to keep breathing.
I have a friend who is bi-polar and she cycles really bad. I get sooooo frustrated with her sometimes but I am bound and determined to get through to her. 
She got pretty bad a few month's ago and cut off everyone. She finally called me this week for the first time in a few month's.
You both are on your way and you will make it....together. You are a wonderful mom who has her hands very full and you are doing everything you can for him and one day he will thank you for standing by him and not giving up.
Take care of yourself
Tracie
Randy,
I am not sure that I like Jon's doctor. I am very disappointed that he did not have a better plan for Jon's care. He did not offer you any real advice or help. I would not stay with him. But that being said, I know from personal experience that it is hard to find a psychiatrist that will take children.
Call the doctor and tell him you need something to help Jon sleep, so that you and he can get some rest.
Take care and remember we are here to listen. You are a good mom and this is not your fault. You are doing everything you can do for Jon.
Reta
i am sorry to say that i think i agree with reruho --- i don't think your doctor is being of much help at all...- what has he told you about tapering off the Strattera and what to expect? i know a 34 year old girl who is just coming off Effexor and it is the WORST experience of her life. she is getting "brain zaps" (little electrical shocks in the brain) and awful mood swings - she is terrified although she knows that it is only temporary - she keeps on saying just WHEN is it going to stop. and she is 34!!! for crying out loud - the doctor shouldn't just be saying hospitalise him if he gets suicidal... what is wrong with this doctor. he should be taking you through, step-by-step all the possible things that Jon might be going through with accompanying helpful advice. shouldn't he?
i hope you can find someone better --- and as said above, i think you are doing a great job. i don't think the same about your doctor however. and there may be a good reason that he has prescribed the depakote but i feel it is a bit of an overload --- can't he wait until the strattera has finally got out of Jon's system first??? (although it may well be that the depakote is supposed to help smooth the transition --- i genuinely don't anything about depakote except that it was originally for epilepsy seizures - and that's it).
i don't mean to get furious for you and then "rile" the situation because i know that won't help anything but i do think you ARE right. you are NOT getting enough support from your doctor and i hope you can find someone better or impress upon him that you need to know more, understand more and have further support and guidance.
it will all pass - it just will take that time for the medication to wend out. why don't you ask ogram??? i think she took her son off Strattera due to a bad reaction too and she may well have lots of helpful advice for you - especially if the doctor comes up with nothing again.
i hope you can all hang in there for the next couple of weeks --- and if Jon also knows it may only be a couple of weeks it will probably help him too. all the best with it all......
but you seem so strong - you can get him through it.
i hope this post just doesn't add to your frustration levels - i know it is important to keep calm and resolute and not give in to outrage etc., so i am not saying your doctor is wrong just that maybe that you are not wrong to ask him for a little more - or be a little more informative otherwise perhaps, i hope, you can find someone.
and all the best with it - it IS TEMPORARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in two weeks or so it will all be over and new meds a more experienced doctor and things will be entirely different. for Jon - there is a solution - and i am sorry your trial and error has been harder than it is for many but the right combo will be found - as said above. just time....
chjones39543.1654166667
I just will pipe in a bit, I dont think this is "coming off the Strattera". Not saying he's not having the mood swings due to the Strattera, that well could be, but you dont have to wean off it. I know that doesnt help and I agree you need some more medical support, but tapering off the Strattera wouldn't have changed things. My daughter took Strattera years ago and is currently using Strattera.
Could you give him Benadryl to sleep? Maybe check with the pharmacist if you cant reach his doctor. Especially where it's temporary, hopfully.
Thank you to everyone for your support and understanding. I am kind of pulling out my hair- my husband is now on midnight dhift from 11p-7a. He came home this morning at 8a and needs to sleep until 1:30p and then go back to sleep at 5 or 6p so he will be alert. In other words I have to keep the three children quiet and occupied. I can have the 6 and 9 y/o play outside for awhile but my husband said that Jon is grounded for a week and can not be out of my sight or go outside without me.
Last night, my 6 y/o took my car keys to get something out of the car. No one is allowed to do that and she was sent to her room for an hour. BUT- Jon left the house, went in my car, took off the emergency brake (it's a stick shift) and tried driving off. He rolled backwards into the road and almost hit another vehicle. He was so frightened that his only punishment was to go in his room for an hour.
This morning he is screaming he wants to go outside. I have to take a shower and get them all out of the house. He is now in time out in the bathroom for yelling at me. I don't want to have to really worry about my husband not being alert- he is a trooper and midnights are sooo dangerous. I just want all of this to be over..
Yes, I have to be strong because I don't have a choice. If I had a choice I would have someone full time to just watch Jon.
Randy,
Okiemom is right, Jon is crying out for help. And, I have hinted at hopistalization, but I am beginning to think it may be the best thing for him. Is there a children's hospital there? They might be the place to call for information. I agree you might print your posts to give to the doctors, it has been detailing the journey.
Go online with you insurance company, most will have list of doctors, by speciality, that are in your network. I had to do that to fiind an orthopedic surgeon. I found my son's doctor through a friend with an autistic son.
Reta
One thing I forget to mention, be very careful giving him any meds. Patty Duke Austin, the actress, is bipolar. She was diagnosed by her doctor after some cold meds caused a mania espisode during a visit.
Reta
Hey guys- I took the children out for a ride. They are supposed to go to a neighbor's birthday party and they are getting ready now. Jon is very tired at this time. He poured me iced tea in a cup for here and a take along cup so I can stay at the party. It makes me cry that he wants to behave so much.
Jon is lying on the couch holding our two tiny little puppies on his lap in a tiny fluffy dog bed. He is usually 99.9% of the time extremely gentle with the dogs (chihuahuas). I asked him how he felt and he said "puppy happy" the puppies make him feel good and calm.
I called and left messages for the psychiatrist and the behavioral psychologist and told them what has been going on. I know he may have to be hospitalized if we can't get him stable pretty soon but I need to pray that won't be neccessary. Jon has such a tender heart and spirit that it will do more damage than good when he isn't in a 'manic impulsive phase'. And it will absolutely traumatize him not to be with me and to be there. Do you all understand how that can be?
I got a book by Dr. Rosalie Greenburg. She has treated bipolar children for 9over 25 years and said that treating ADHD before treating with mood stabilizers can work for a few months and then things get worse. She said the mood stabilizers have to come first and then you treat 'what's left over'. The description she gives about the behavior of bipolar and the progression of behavior during the day fits Jon to a t. Does that mean I shouldn't be in this forum anymore?
Randy,
Please stay, we will support you as much as your can. Jon has comoribities. If you want to look for another forum, do so., But don't leave us until you have a support network in place. We have many parents of children that are bipolar and ADHD on this forum.
Don't take the negative on hospitalization. It might give Jon the chance to get what he needs, the things his doctors are not doing for him now.
My parents had to Baker Act my brother when he was a teenager, he was suicidal and had really frightened my parents. They kept him for 72 hours. He was angry but he got over it and has come realized that it was the right thing for them to do.
Reta
and besides what we would do without your input, too????glad Jon is all calm and happy. poor rabbit! what a roller-coaster it must be for all of you. you do as you want of course but i suppose your posts/advice/voice (or whatever one calls it) will always be more than welcome --- if they put up with me i can't imagine why they wouldn't be delighted with you, no?
all the best with it! Randyjim,
There are many parents on this forum whose children have a comorbid bipolar diagnosis in addition to ADHD. Your posts have been very helpful and insightful, so please....... don't leave on the grounds that the BP is taking front and center right now. I'd encourage getting support for the BP in online forums, but we of course would hate to see you pull out of this forum.
Also..........just because we suggested hospitalization, recall I conditioned my suggestion on whether or not the Depakote and this doctor could get Jon stabilized soon. Of course we all want to see you and your family to be able to help Jon on an outpatient basis. All I'm saying is do not rule out hospitalization if it gets to that. Only you and your family will know when that exact time is here. No one here can tell you when that time is at hand.
Randyjim........Jon has a couple of factors working in his favor bigtime. One.....he has loving and supportive parents who are willing to try many things to help him. Two.........he is still YOUNG! You are not dealing with an out of control teen..... or worse yet.......an OUT OF CONTROL TEEN WHO IS ABOUT TO TURN 18 YRS OLD AND BECOME A LEGAL ADULT! It gets MUCH more complicated for a parent when the condition has been left untreated for that long, or the onset of the illness happens after age 18 (just look at what Britney Spear's parents have had to do!!)
Okiemom
[QUOTE=randyjim] Jon has such a tender heart and spirit that it will do more damage than good when he isn't in a 'manic impulsive phase'. And it will absolutely traumatize him not to be with me and to be there. Do you all understand how that can be?I do understand what you are saying. The thing you need to also remember is that right now he feels like his life is spiraling out of control and he can not stop it. I know that hospitalization is the last thing you want to do but it may be the only thing that will help him get better.
Yes, having to go to an inpatient facility will be scary for him. Been there done that, so I know. But I know now that my mother did the only thing she knew she could to get me the help I needed. I believe that it is more traumatizing to him to have to continue to live this way.
She said the mood stabilizers have to come first and then you treat 'what's left over'.I can understand this process. His ADHD is not causing him to be a danger to himself and other's. It is just aggrivating the other disorder's. Him being bi-polar and having impulsivity on top of it can be a very dangerous combination. The description she gives about the behavior of bipolar and the progression of behavior during the day fits Jon to a t. Does that mean I shouldn't be in this forum anymore?Absolutely not. You have built a connection with many of the parents here and you need a support system. I think you can look for a site specifically for bi-polar children but I think you need to stay here as well where you know we are here to help and support you in any way we can.
I am sending many hugs and prayers your way. If you need to talk you can PM me anytime. Take care.
Tracie
[/QUOTE]Randyjim, the others have mentioned hospitalization, the other though on this is if he is really out of control where you absolutely cannot trust him. You need your sleep, and your body to rest, or you will not be healthy and where would he be without you? I'm not toally sure he would have to "be without you" if he was hospitalized either. You may be able to stay with him if necessary.
AS far as leaving the forum, I know most of us would be worrying about you guys if we weren't around for his recovery. He IS going to get better and we are all routing for him.
Randyjim - my son is in 3rd grade, AND has ADHD, is bipolar, and is ODD. He also has anxiety issues. He started on concerta which stopped him from being so physically out of control, then zoloft which helped him to be happier and enjoy life, but he was still impulsive and destructive. We added the Tenex a few months ago and things are SO much better. He was in a private school for kindergarten, and it was a challenge. Then we tried a public charter school, and it was a disaster. He cannot be managed in a class with 23 other kids, and where they require a lot of "production". He is also a visual/spacial, hands on learner, so the classroom setting does not suit him. I then tried a nature based school, but he has issues with bugs. He is now at a school with kids with learning disabilities, and while he's not quite challenged in all areas, he is socially in a good place. If you can possibly put him in a small school, I would highly recommend it. Randyjim,My heart goes out to you and Jon. Please please understand what I am about to say may sound direct and harsh to some, but I need to say it.
First........ you are absolutely a wonderful, caring mom who unquestionably loves her children very very much. I SO admire all your efforts to help Jon in his struggles. You have wisely taken a conservative approach and tried many alternatives to help Jon.
I have been reading your posts for quite some time now and following the "trend" of what is going on with Jon. You write very descriptively and with great detail, so your information is very telling in your posts. As a matter of fact, I would print them all off, put them in chronological sequence by date, and keep them handy to give to the professionals that may help you next.
I will probably get blasted for telling you this.....but based on all the things you've posted to this point, I agree with the others that this psychiatrist you're working with is NOT doing you a service and he is minimizing the situation. Jon is a very sick little boy right now. STOP and think about what you've just posted about Jon getting in the car and backing into the street! STOP and read ALL your posts about his escalating behaviors in the past two months! HE IS BEGGING FOR HELP! IMHO Randyjim....... its at the point he DOES need inpatient help to get him stabilized if the Depakote doesn't start working or this psych doesn't get in gear and realize how serious this is. This is one of the toughest positions a parent can be in Randyjim.......and my heart just goes out to you, but the stakes are just too high if you don't get the situation turned around soon. I've have known of parents who literally, due to financial pressures and limited resources, have had to make the AGONIZING decision to sign their parental rights OVER TO THE STATE to get their ill child the right mental health care that they truly needed!
I'm not saying hospitalization is the cure all here. BUT......it might just be what is needed to get the ball rolling on more intensive outpatient care! It doesn't mean Jon will be in the hospital for days or weeks......just enough time to get a team of specialists to come up with a plan of intervention. Please.....consider what this is doing to Jon, your other kids, your marriage, YOUR health, etc.
I know this alternative sounds harsh and probably the doctors comment that "hospitalization is the last resort" make you not even want to consider it. But it may be just what Jon needs to get the ball rolling for the next step in help. His behavior is getting increasingly dangerous. No one can deny or ignore that. I simply cannot believe this doctor is not acting more proactively based on the descriptions of behaviors you've posted.
Hang in there. You DO have the inner strength to get Jon the help he needs. You are a Mama bear protecting her cub........and you do what you have to save your cub's life! It's time to get out your broomstick and turn into the Wicked Mom Witch of the West to get what you and Jon need!
Okiemom
okiemom39543.3443287037
Hey Randyjim,
I've been MIA for a while, dealing with some stuff, and HOLY STRESS BATMAN!! I don't know how you do it. I can only imagine that you feel tapped, and like you are scrapping the bottom of the barrel of your energy/patients. You must feel like a hamster running in wheel. YIKES. I don't if the psych is a good fit or not, I'm assuming that you all talked for at least an hour so there's probably alot more that was discussed. I agree in the respect that it doesn't seem that he was as proactive as (we all) hoped he would be for you. It all sounds very dangerous/scary. You/he are lucky that not only he didn't hit a car but that he didn't a child walking buy. That to me is HUGE sign that there has to be drastic changes. (obviously the threats to himself and others are just as real...but seriously imjuring someone else like is a permanently life altering). I can sympathize with the fright/anxiety over hospitalization. As a laymen I have to agree that might be the most productive path, but I also agree with your aprehension. One suggestion: I imagine that is costs quite a lot for insurance to pay for inpatient care, if you call them do you think they would approve funds to pay for someone to come to your house. Is outpatient a possibility? By that I mean a place he can go to daily or several times a week, but still come home everyday? If that exists thats the solution I would look for.
As always I wish peace, happiness and success for you and your family.
Hi y'all. Thanks for letting me be on the forum. I am going to ask Jon's psychiatrist for the name of a children's hospital and tell the doctor I want Jon admitted. I am so tired physically trying to keep Jon in my sight and safe. I don't think the depakote is doing anything. I know it has to be titrated up but I don't think it's best for him here. This morning my 9 y/o got so tired of bearing the brunt of Jon's anger he cried out, "why is everyone so mean to me?" I suggested that he dictate a little book to me to type and he could illustrate it to help other children with brothers or sisters that are ill. While we were doing it Jon came over and told me he wanted to write something also. The following is what Jon wrote (I scribed):
My name is Jon and I want to beat up my brother because he’s a little mulrat. I get angry and want to kill myself. I am going to take a gun and shoot Patrick and then kill myself. And that is it. I hate me and I wish I was dead. And please somebody help me. Save me so I don’t kill myself. Nothing scares me. I am going to make a fruit smoothie. And that’s it. I hate myself and just leave me alone.