Diagnosing w/ giftedness? - UPDATE | ADHD Information
Hello all- I'm very new here and have been reading up quite a bit, expecting to join your ranks very soon.My dd is 7 and in grade 2. Her teacher suggested getting her assessed earlier this year. She is concerned about her ability to focus, and some anxious behaviors. Academically, she's been doing very well- she gets As and Bs. In grade 1 her teacher had suggested that she write the board gifted test, the CCAT. She came close- she got 90s in verbal and quantitative, and 80-something in nonverbal.
There is no doubt she is a "busy" girl. She's always been very active, very loud, very dramatic, very strong-willed. She usually concentrates quite well on a task, but can get distracted and will sometimes need to be redirected back to the task on hand. She has a good memory for some things (dates, events, etc.), but can't remember where she left her pencil case 15 minutes ago. She does call out in class (always with the correct answer, mind you) and has a very hard time not fidgeting. Her sense of organization is not great- getting her to clean her room is always a struggle. It's as if she literally doesn't know how to come up with a plan of attack (Barbies in one bin, art supplies in the drawer, etc.)
At the same time, she's cooperative, super creative, very kind, is very social, and has no problems socially.
Her teacher's concern is that right now, her brightness is outpacing her ability to pay attention, so her marks aren't suffering. However, in higher grades, when she has to do more detailed work, her ability to focus and organize will have a bigger impact. The psych., without having actually scored the tests yet, said there's no doubt she is very bright and that in a couple years time, her current school might not be enough of a challenge for her.
She just finished 5 1/2 hours of testing with a private psychologist this week. On Monday my husband and I go to meet with the psych. on her own, to discuss the results and come up with strategies.
Honestly, I have no idea what to expect, though I will not at all be surprised if she is indeed diagnosed with ADHD.
I keep trying to tell myself that a 'label' doesn't matter- what matters is the next steps we take in helping her combat her problem areas- her lack of organization, and her anxiety. She could well be gifted- and something else. The 'something else' part is what is concerning me.
I am not in denial about any of this- none of this is new in our world- and ultimately what I want is for her to be happy and successful in whatever she ends up doing, what we all want for our kids. Dh and I are both on the same page with this- although years ago, when I knew something was different about her, he was in a bit of denial about it himself I think.
Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking specifically of what to ask the psychologist when we meet Monday. Even though I can see this coming, I'm sure I will go into a bit of shellshock nonetheless.
Thanks all :)
tosca39552.4814930556
Hi and welcome
You are already ahead of them game here. You sound knowledgable and educated on your daughters both strengths and weaknesses. The first step in being the best advocate for her that you can be. I applaud your attititude in not worrying about what labels are put in place, but more for having a plan of action. Good for you.
It's hard to say what you should be thinking about before you even have any kind of diagnosis. The few things that come to mind are knowing what kinds of accomodations she is going to need for success at school. There is a lot of information around on twice exceptional children if she is truly ADHD and gifted, it is quite common. Being gifted requires special education in itself, but for different reasons than people generalize. Try to make some lists of areas of concern you have for her and discuss with the psych. Another good place is wrightslaw, they have a very comprehensive website and lists all sorts of common modifications.
Good luck, she sounds like a wonderful kid with caring supportive parents! Two things going in her favor already!!
There could be many reasons your child has a focusing problem but if in fact she is diagnosed with ADHD, she can also be considered "Twice Exceptional" if she is also gifted. The teacher is correct in that as the grades get higher, the work gets more complicated and demanding thus, grades can suffer as well as emotional aspects of the child. Once you get the results of testing, if there are no definitive answers I would in fact have your child assessed by a child psychiatrist or a neuro/psych as psychologists are not trained or knowledgeable enough to make a differential diagnosis.
In order for the child to be diagnosable for ADHD, behaviors have to be present in more than one setting and such behaviors must interefere with the child's ability to function on a daily basis in all areas of life. Below is the definition of "Twice Exceptional" Good luck and please keep us posted :)
Definition of Twice Exceptional
"Students identified as gifted who also display one or more areas of disability remain under-identified both in special and gifted education programs. All too often school personnel do not have the resources necessary to make decisions about this unique group of students commonly called the twice-exceptional."1
Epistemology
There are two compounding issues with the Twice Exceptional condition.
Psychological Considerations
The first issue is psychological and clinical diagnosis have been changing as the Twice Exceptional condition is compared to Autism, ADHD, Bipolar, OCD, Asperger’s, Depression, and other mental disorders.3,4
How does Twice Exceptional conditions relate to Autisim, Savantism, ADHD, Dyslexia, and other mental conditions
Twice Exceptional diagnosis
And yet, Twice Exceptional are highly gifted individuals
IQ at both ends of the spectrum
Educational Considerations
The first is that most states do not as of yet fully acknowledge the issue in their gifted programs. This is an excerpt that exemplifies how recently states have begun to address the issue:
Associated issues with the Exceptionally gifted
Yet the Twice Exceptional Student has other needs.
Luvmykids0239551.6198611111
I do know what you are going through as I and my son just went through all of this back in January. He too is gifted and ADHD and ODD. He was accepted in the gifted program in his school back in November and that is when westarted on our road for a dx. He was just days away from being kicked out of school because of his behavior and I knew if I didn't do something then, that he could lose this opportunity(the gifted program)
I took him to see his ped. and we got the ball rolling for his ADHD eval. We had 3 appts. with the psyc. and the final visit was for the results of the eval. This is where I was informed that my son is at the superior scale (93% as far as intelligence) He has just turned 7 and has the vocabulary of an 11 yr old. All of this took me kinda by surprise and I was proud. I knew he was smart but dang...Superior I never expected. Also at this appt. he told me of his concerns of my son being immature and having seperation issues. He has scheduled several appts. for us as a family to go and address these issues and to learn ways of handeling his ADHD and ODD.
My son was put on meds. in November before his dx and he is doing FANTASTIC in school now. He got the most improved award with his last report card Which had straight A's on it.
Maybe our experience will help you to know what to expect.
Good luck to you and your daughter.
Tracie
So, we had our review with the psych. this morning. Dd was indeed assessed as both Gifted and with ADHD (combined-type). No additional issues such as ODD or anxiety. No surprises to me and dh. I actually feel quite positive about the whole thing. It was interesting reviewing all the various subtests- she did very well on the tests that were more verbal and contextual, and not as well on the ones that tested memory of uncontextualized information. And of course the subtests that required more focus and attention to detail were more difficult for her.
Psych. suggested that our approach should be now to work on her organizational skills and ways to keep on task. Once we do this, she feels that within a couple of years she'll need to go into a segregated gifted program for more of a challenge.
Thanks again to all of your for your support and suggestions...I'm sure I'll be hanging out here frequently!
tosca39552.485787037That's exactly what my son needs, and the school is basically refusing to go along with it. They stuck him in a "special needs" classroom where he is asked things like "what color is this?" It's maddening. If you get through to the school and they agree to help with your daughter's organizational/executive skills let me know how you did it so I can try it at my son's school!Tosca, just remember that all this "stuff" -- the testing, the diagnosis, the "labeling", the strategies, etc... is being done because of the academic system and its need for process and rigor and labels and achiecement measures designed for the average student, not the exceptional student. Coming away from your appointment with the psych., you and your husband will have the benefit (hopefully) of new insights as to why your daughter demonstrates some of the traits she has--but you won't know your daughter any better than before you went in. Thank you all SO much for your thoughtful responses- JohnD, your message is speaking loud and clear to me. When a friend of mine went through the whole diagnosis thing with her son, I told her that no matter what she was told, she came out with the same son she went in with. Why can't I take that to heart now? LOL.
Now...whatever we come out with from our meeting...I will have so many questions.
For example- telling her teacher & school and the whole IEP business. She's an excellent student and even her 'behaviors' aren't that problematic. It's more a question of potential with her- for example, her teacher has always felt that her reading comprehension was never as good as her actual decoding because she read so freaking quickly. And earlier on, she couldn't slow down enough to sound things out phonetically, even though she knew her phonetic sounds very well. All that to say, will the school give an IEP to a student who isn't suffering academically? In other words, even if she *could* do better, would they see A's and B's as good enough?
And, while I like her teacher as a person- I think she is incredibly well-meaning- I do feel like she projects a bit from her own personal experience. She has a son with issues- nonverbal learning disability and OCD I believe. She has never come out and diagnosed dd per se, but she has alluded to things that her son has done, I think in the spirit of helpfulness. For example, dd gets anxious at things like fire drills and, but it's about her anxiety rather than OCD. Sigh. I just try to remind myself that teachers are humans and parents too.
Such children are considered "Twice Exceptional" so the best shot at success whether the ADHD child is gifted or not works well when their is a collaborate effort between parents, doctors and the school. Everyone must be on the same page and have a plan for success for the child. For those considering medication, the physciian should specialize in the field of childhood disorders and med management...i.e....psychiatrist, neuro/pysch. Good luck and please keep us posted
Tosca,
We are taking our 6 y/o son to a neuro-psych for the whole battery of testing in a couple of weeks. He is gifted as well and has had some preliminary assessments that indicate ADHD. My wife and I have the same concerns about what to expect from this as you did. You didn't mention anything about meds. Did the psychologist discuss them with you? Did he/she not even bring it up?
Just curious...
Hi ProDad-At the end of our debrief with the psychologist, she did bring up the subject of meds. She didn't push them, but she did suggest that we not immediately discount them and keep our minds open. She cannot prescribe, of course, and she gave us the names of a couple of local pediatricians who specialize in ADHD to consult with. We have a good family doctor, but he only works part-time and I'm not convinced he'd have the best expertise in this area.
Good luck with your appointments :)
[QUOTE=tosca] Psych. suggested that our approach should be now to work on her organizational skills and ways to keep on task. Once we do this, she feels that within a couple of years she'll need to go into a segregated gifted program for more of a challenge. [/QUOTE]
There's a plethora of articles and books out there for parents of ADHD kids as I'm sure you've discovered, and I expect you'll also discover that the content gets pretty repetitive--plowing the same ground in a slightly different way. I think you'd find some of the stuff written for adults would be very helpful for you and your husband. These books often reveal more insight into ADHD traits which I would think very helpful for parents such as you--particularly with a gifted child who's insight and emotional intelligence may be way ahead of her years. The book "The Disorganized Mind" by Nancy Ratey (St. Martin's Press) I think you might find especially helpful.