Getting 10yr. old to take responsibility | ADHD Information

brtsqd3- What type of doctor assessed your son?  I only ask because my son's teacher did the same thing to us.  She was actually the one who called me and complained about the disorganization, inattention and fidgetiness, but then she did an about face and kept insisting he was totally "average."  I know now that it was because of the administration at the school, but when those checklists came back from her I was furious.  We did explain the situation to the neuropsych and he was actually very understanding (he had dealt with our school before).  The test results were so conclusive that he wasn't worried about the teacher's form.

Diane- I so wish that I could charge him money for the cussing.  We've tried, but it seems that his understanding of the value of money is very similar to his concept of time- nonexistant!

This morning he was up way early so he was playing video games when I came down at 7.  I let him know he had 5 minutes to finish up, when the time was up I told him it was time to turn it off and waited 2 more minutes to see if he would do it.  He didn't so I told him no video games this afternoon, he started to mouth off before he realized I had already walked away.  When he came upstairs I told him he could eat first since his sister was in the shower.  I had already put bowls and soymilk on the table and when he walked into the dining room he said (in the most cheerful voice ever), "Hey, Mama- thanks for getting that stuff out for me."  Something must have sank in after all!   He was pleasant as pie for the rest of the morning- I didn't even have to remind him to brush his teeth.  I made sure to let him know he earned extra points for the stuff he did without being asked and for being extra pleasant.

One suggestion about time...my son has not concept of time. 5 minutes might as well be an hour.  So, when I want him off the computer, instead of saying you have 5 minutes or 15 min. I tell him, you must be off my "5:30" or you have 5 minutes and that will be 5:30. 

He knows he has to leave for school at 7:21 a.m. so we kind of give him gentle reminders" are you watching the time? 

 

Bebop- Thanks, it's always nice to know you're not alone.  He did lose his video games, but like you said- it works sometimes.  We've been working really hard on "natural consequences" and really made a big deal of it when he brought his math grade up last quarter- loudly told everyone we ran into/called on the phone, told him he could pick a reward and so went out and bought him the video game he wanted.  I've also let him know that there will be consequences for the grades falling again.

inspiredbymusic-  I have every intention on following through with my threat.  He already make his own food when he doesn't like what I cook and he knows how to run the washer and dryer.  What he needs to know is that he cannot treat me that way and still have me do all the nice things I do for him.  I will not be neglecting him or ignoring him- in fact I intend to treat him the same as always, just not do anything for him. 

The thing is I've done everything very consistently and calmly.  I'm the type of person who reacts to emergency and seriously stressful situations by becoming un-naturally calm.  But he still acts this way.  I know when he loses control that he can't self-calm very well- that is always factored into my reaction.  But he tells me everything that goes wrong is my fault, if I ask him to do something as simple as brushing his teeth he will sometimes go ballistic and tell me I'm "pushing him around."  We've been over the fact that while he cannot control everything, he can control how he reacts- and he can quite often.  I've coached him on appropriate ways to deal with frustration and anger.  But I can only take so much.   

I don't know if you've ever dealt with a child like this, but he does get sent to his room when he behaves like this- and from his room he continues to scream and cuss at me, throw things at me/down the stairs and otherwise destroy my house.  He loses priveleges that he can earn back by doing extra chores.  Sometimes he'll do the chores, other times not.  Sometimes he cares, other times not.

I have been checking his backpack every day since he started kindergarten, checking with his teachers, keeping on top of him about everything, but you know what?  It hasn't done a darn thing to teach him how to take care of his responsibilities.  He's started lying to me about his homework and leaving it at school.  I know it is harder for him that for other kids, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have to learn to take responsibility for his own work.  He should be able to go to his backpack and get out his homework book and folder when I tell him it's time and show them to me when he's finished (I've always had him bring it to me to check).  His teacher typically reminds him to take all his stuff, so there's no excuse on that end.  The teacher checks his planner, and at the beginning of the year she would write down the assignment if he had forgotten, but I asked her not to do that because he needs to learn that if he forgets to do something he still has to do it anyway.  She still checks, but tells him to write it down if he hasn't, which he does sometimes. 

He has a therapist, his ped. knows about the problems, the neuropsych ruled out co-morbids.  He cannot use this disorder as an excuse- he still has to learn how to function in life.  I'm just at my wit's end and it seems it's time for something drastic to happen.          

so much of what you typed is my 9 yr old son to a T.

We can't look at him or blink at him without him freaking out. If we tell him to go get his homework he freaks out and takes off running adn screaming crying and slamming his door. I don't know how many times I've taken his door off the hinges and he had to earn it back.

He doesn't cuss at us. But he has I guess what some would call melt downs. He constantly lies to us about homework. He will wad it up and hide it or throw it in the trash. Whatever it takes to not have to do it. Or the best part he'll show us his homework, we check it, then the next morning he doesnt want to go to school cause he's sick, only to find out that he didn't want to go to school because he had some other homework that was due that he didn't do.

I'm at my witts end as well. Only his teacher does NOTHING to help us. Nothing.... All year, he just says oh thats ok chase, here just redo it in class. No punishment, no help, no support nothing. but then when we did our evals for add, odd, etc he was super generous to our son. He rated him basically nothing on everything. Everything from disorganization to loses tools to complete tasks etc. He rated him a 0 or a 1. Which is total b.s. he's a 3 on everything that revolves around school. I'm just sick of it. I told him if he didn't care, how could I? So I told him if he choses to repeat 3rd grade again, to go ahead and continue on this path. We to sit every single night with him iwth his homework. He will sit from 3pm till 9pm and still not finish. I don't know what else to do with him. And they wont even discuss medicine BECAUSE his teacher didn't report the truth on that test.

 

jaderock, I have a suggestion that sort of falls in the middle. We went through something similar with my daughter last year. So, I did both made her show her work and still checked it. This is in regards the that nightmare everyone else calls a backpack! Every day the first thing she must do is empty it. Trash goes in the trash homework in homework folder and then back into the backpack. So she has to clean it out, and be the one to show me. There were days it took practically until dinner, but we got it done. She constantly tells me (still to this day) that she would do better without me on her back. I sometimes dont blame her. I get sick of my own nagging . She would never make the bus if I didnt prompt her along all morning though.

The cussing, I know some one who charged a dollar every time some one cussed. So if you do it, you owe him a dollar, if he does it he owes you a dollar. Cussing is habit and with teens done for the shock factor. Would hitting his pocket have an impact?

jaderock - your second post confirms that your son is just like mine.  You do everything you can to help and they just refuse it.  It's not you - the only other thing to do would be to go to school for him.  You just got to keep trying things.  Try what people suggest and if it doesn't work, keep searching for something that does. 

At 10 years old, you do have to exercise a little more control over the school work. 10 year olds are immature anyway and ADHD kids are even less.  But, there is the fine balance. That is one mistake I made - I just took over when I saw him doing poorly because of his dissorganization.  I would go through the backpack and it was amazing what I pulled out.  At one point, his 6th grade teacher thought he should be an archeologist because he likes to dig through his backpack and discover things.

I have done what you are doing too - when he has treated me very badly I have told him calmly that if he wants me to do nice things for him,  he has to treat me nicely. I told him I'd provide him the basics but the little extras are going.

So, ofcourse, he retorts with "parental abuse, what little things do you do for me? etc. etc.   Well, I explained to him that I am required to provide food clothing and shelter, but picking up the little extra candy treats and special cereal brands are nice and not nutrionally necessary - treats.  When he demanded an omelette for breakfast rudely, I told him to make it himself.

Now, when I catch him being good, I praise him, but not going nuts.  For example, I asked him to vacuum the kitchen floor for me while I took the dog out last night. He did it without lip and I thanked him and told him how he helped me out. When he asked me to make homefries and and omelette on Tuesday, even though I had planned leftovers and I was exhausted, I said yes because he was super pleasant and had had a tough day. I let him know the consequences of self control and being nice.

This a.m. he actually cleaned up on his own his breakfast dishes and I thanked him and told him how much I appreciated it.

When he asks me to pick up something extra at the store, or if he can have a soda with dinner, I'll say, "yes, because your behaviour is great and you asked me nicely."

Organizational skills are a big problem with our kids.  It seems that even if you have a program set up, it's still difficult.  The problem is magnified if you have defiant children like we do.

If you have a child with ADHD and is lacking executive functions but they are not oppositional, it is easier to get them to follow programs and accept help.

Ofcourse you love your child unconditionally and you let him know that, but unconditional love to does not mean you have to accept being treated badly.

I wish I had better advise. I don't know if it makes you feel any better, but my son's psychiatrist said our kids are the toughest to treat.

At least your son is on medication - we are working on getting my son to take it.

 

 

Ok, ok- I know all the maturity issues and attentional issues and imupsivity issues get in the way, but I'm at the point where I can't stand to be around him (again) and I'm sick of being blamed for things that are clearly his responsibility.

I haven't been around here too much lately, but for the past month or so DS's behavior has been through the roof.  Disrespectful, nasty attitude, screaming, cussing every time I ask him to do something (some days even if I just talk to him) and absurd preschooler-ish temper tantrums.  We've been using a point system where he earns points for good behavior and lots of praise (he's also on Focalin XR), but strangely he doesn't react all that well to being praised- he's gone so far as to throw a fit when I complimented him on how well he handle something that would typically cause him to throw a fit.  It was like all I did was remind him to react in his typical fashion.  AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

Last night he was mad because I told him he had to do his math homework.  He kept insisting that he had a homework pass but that his teacher had forgotten to pass them out.  My policy has always been that I have to see the homework pass in order for him to use it.  Then I found a couple of math papers that looked like they were homework that he had shoved into the wrong section of his binder and I asked him what they were and told him he needed to start writing him homework down in homework book again.  He said he didn't know what the pares were and then started screaming at me for not signing his homework book (that he had not written in for the past month so I'd stopped checking).  I told him very calmly that it was not my job to dig through his backpack every day to look for homework and to check a book that he wasn't using.  At which point he screamed at me "That's bull-$%@*!  It is your job!"  I sent him to his room, then (in one of my not so great parenting moments) told him "I'll tell you what's bull-$%@*-" and then lectured him at length about personal responsibility.  I'm sure none of it sunk in.

I let him know in no uncertain terms last night that that was the last time he would scream and cuss at me.  I explained that I worked long and hard to get away from people who treated me like that and that I was not going to live with it ever again.  I told him that if it happened again I would stop doing anything for him.  He told me that was illegal and he didn't want me to do anything illegal, but I explained that all the law required me to do was to not hurt him and provide him with food, clothing, and shelter.  I let him know that I am not required to wash his clothes for him or prepare his meals or remind him to get ready for school or take him to baseball practice or any of the million other things that we parents do because we love our kids.  I told him I loved him and didn't mind doing those things for him when he treats me respectfully, but. . .     

I've decided that I'm done- I'll ask/remind him to do stuff once, but that's it.  If he doesn't he'll lose a privilege and suffer some natural consequences, but I'm finished.  I'm not going to chase him down to make him do anything.  He told me he gets stuff done at school becasuse his teacher reminds him, but when I pointed out that I remind him too he told me I was being mean.  He yells at me if I remind him more than once because "he's getting to it" and he yells at me if I don't remind him more than once because "don't you know I need reminders!?"

Thanks for letting me vent.  Any advise is welcome. 

(hugs)  I've had the same conversation with my son.  Don't feel badly about those bad parenting moments...I've had lots of them.  You try and try to control yourself and they just push that button one more time and you blow.  Forget about it.  Move on.

All I can say is that you are not his slave and  you have to show him consequences to his actions.  That is what my son's psychiatrist has been working on all year.  Don't get into the habit of being responsible for his work.  All that will do is let him know that eventually mom will come to the rescue every time.  I'm not saying don't be involved or check his work or keep an eye on him.  Just let him know he is the repsonsible for his work and the subsequent consequences.  IT's not easy -we are still working on it.

My son doesn't take responsibility either - he's now 14.  The Dr. told me to "back off" from the advocating and checking on him, unless he asked.  It's been tough, and my son still is irresponsible, but he finally understands that it's his actions that are causing the failing grades and bad reports. 

So, you were right to tell him it's not your responsibility to dig through his backpack for work.  By the way, when my son cusses, we take away his computer priveleges.  Works sometimes.

I know this is going to be hard, because I'm still working on this, but let him not pass in his homework and suffer the consequences.  BUT, you have to let him know that if he doesn't pass in his homework, or write it in his homework book or lies about  homework passes, and then gets a failing grade, it is his fault.

He'll try to blame it on you and you just have to get it through to him that his irresponsible behavior is to blame.

 

bebop39581.5065509259jaderock,
I have a different point of view on this.
I understand your frustration.
However I don't think it is wise to threaten a child with something you will not follow through on, and I sincerely hope that you would not follow through on withdrawing all parental support except for food, clothing and shelter.
I don't know whether or not that would fit the legal definition of abuse or neglect but I am sure it would be incredibly damaging. He is 10 years old, and with ADHD, he is probably less mature than most 10 year olds.
Yes there should be consequences for screaming and swearing, but the consequences should, IMO, fit with the "crime." Sending him to his room seems like a logical consequence.
If it were me I would apologize for losing my temper and explain to him that you love him unconditionally and that you will always work with him to help him succeed, AND that you must treat each other with respect.
If I were you I would also talk to the doctor about the temper issues.
Is counseling a possibility?
Kids with ADHD need more help than most with organization.
If it were me, I would go through the backpack every day, communicate with the teacher as much as necessary (for example, if your son is supposed to be writing in the planner and isn't, I would check with the teacher to see what can be done), and sit with him and make sure the homework is done. Doing the homework and getting an education is his responsibility, but I believe that parents do have a responsibility to help the child do what they need to. You can't just let a 10 year old fail and expect them to learn from long-term consequences. In my opinion that is a recipe for disaster.