ADHD & Following the Rules | ADHD Information

I am confused.  What kind of a program is this?  Does this child have ADHD?  Do all the children have ADHD?  Are you saying that the parents are asking you to allow food more frequently or alter the menu entirely or?  Also, is this a summer program or a boarding school or?  I feel like there is quite a bit of info missing here.

In addition, I would like to know what, if any, types of conversation you have had with the parents-particularly regarding your choice of group.  If you feel that this child needs "extra care" that can't be had with others, why?  Can this be explained in the most respectful of ways so that the parent understands where you are coming from?

Since I am missing quite a bit of info, I will only say what I think so far. 

I understand how having every child be responsible for the same thing is important.  However, from simply a logistical standpoint, what if a child has an allergy or sensitivity to a food?  What if a child needs more sleep than another?  Etc.  I think SOME flexibility needs to be considered. 

Also, it sounds as though you are judging these people for their parenting time.  Perhaps you could ask them, in a conversational manner what it is that they do when they aren't with their child?  It is a very trying time now economically, and so perhaps they are working 2 jobs each or something that is NOT what they want to be doing but something they HAVE to be doing?  Or, perhaps they are unaware that their child feels neglected.  I have no idea how someone would bring that up without offending the parent.  However, if you could find out the situation first, perhaps you could mention that you notice that he is VERY excited to see them arrive, and perhaps he needs LESS time with you and more with them (or something to that affect..if it is something that you think they could do something about.)

And who is this regarding: "You will never be able to pay attention, achieve this, comprehend that, or succeed - so stay in your place, down below me where I can micromanage everything you do because you're just not capable."

Is that directed at you, or the child?  (I am assuming it is FROM the mother?)  I am lost in what this means.  If you are saying that this is FROM the mother TO you, then you might see if she is willing to put some of her volunteer time in as well.  Perhaps it will kill two birds with one stone?  It would have child have more time with mom, and also it may be that the mom is now having a better sense of what goes on and why you want things to be done in a certain way.  (And more help, too.)

Please give us a bit more info, and I will be able to give a better answer.

Hi paddyq.  Your topic line is "ADHD and following the rules," so I am assuming the child has ADHD. 

How old are these kids?  Is this an activity that takes place after the child has spent 12 hours (you mentioned) at daycare and school?  I see you said it is staffed by volunteers, so those volunteering may not necessarily be educated about ADHD?   

Continued from above:  I would guess that if these are young kids and the child you describe is putting in extra hours after the 12-hour day, naturally, energy and interest might not be there; plus, of course, looking forward to seeing mom and dad. 

Of course, you feel responsible for following the established guidelines, so you do the best you can as far as your routine and limitations go. 

I am wondering if you're concerned about proper placement to a group where the adult in charge may be better suited to give extra attention?  If so, if the parents decide against it, you did what you thought best in the interest of their child. 

Responding to new questions:

Children aren't too young at this age to be in social groups.  However, kids with ADHD are often less mature than their peers and this clingy stuff may be easily explained by that alone.  (I think especially sleep away camps may be something to consider twice if your child needs more parental supervision.)  As an example, I didn't really think my son was ready to go away to a sleep away camp.  However, because it was a RELIGIOUS one, and my son's grandparents and father were attempting to make it seem as though I was trying to keep him away from their church, I let him go.  Big mistake.  He was 12.  I further made the mistake of allowing his ADHD dad to pack his things for the week.  He forgot to pack him a towel.  He went a full week without showering because he couldn't problem solve.  He would rather not shower, than think outside the box.  He told the adults at the camp his situation, who did nothing.  (Great job there church!)  So, he couldn't think about taking some of his clean clothes and drying off with them.  He instead was picked up after a week looking like a homeless person.

In addition: my son could give or take doing almost anything.  He is lazy and would prefer to lay around doing nothing--or perhaps I should say playing his hand held video game while watching TV.  Even when his friend's ask him to go do things, he really could take it or leave it.  So, it might also be normal that he isn't that motivated to be there.  It takes an awful lot to compete with the-constant-changing-magical-device that a video game is!

I think what I don't understand is the comment about "waiting list hell."  Are you saying that most of the volunteers don't want to deal with him?  Also, that even though he may have signed up before others, the organization would allow him to be treated differently?  Boy, that sounds BAD.  If these people who are volunteering aren't able to comprehend that children with ADHD exist and need to be treated differently (having much more patience for example), perhaps those people shouldn't be in charge?  Or, perhaps you could inform the group?  Be the advocate for these kids?  I don't know what the answer is in that this is not a school environment.  I am sure the parents enjoy having this time to themselves as these kids are a handful.  I know that you can't make the world go round, and sometimes trying to spin 12 plates at once is not the best thing in the world.  Perhaps allow this parent what he or she wants, if it doesn't work out-then you get to cross that bridge when you come to it.  You can't worry about everything.  Just make sure the child is treated the way you would want your own child treated, and beyond that- move on.

Again, just one person's opinion.

Let me see if I can clarify:  this is scouting (we're talking 4 hrs. a month max and a Saturday here and there).  Scouting emphasizes independence and being responsible for what you say and do.  The age is 10-12.  The child is adhd and medicated, which is irrelevant to me because I don't see the child as a problem.

Me harping on the 12-hour days is judgemental and wrong of me, but I want to emphasize the big picture - this is what this kid's schedule is like.  I know all my kid's schedules, sports, activities, custody arrangements.  It's like a temperature gauge.  For example, if the parents are going through a divorce - maybe the kid needs some slack or needs to be kept really busy.   

We bend to accomodate allergies and some preferences (no onions, please).  The point being if you have to sleep with your parent, maybe you're not ready to go on an overnight campout without them. 

Let's just say with regard to placement, hanginindere got it exactly right.  So, I guess my questions are: 

Are social groups/activities (not sports) appropriate for children this age?  I think the child enjoys the group, but could take it or leave it.  There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do things just because everyone else does. 

I'm not just placing the child, I'm also placing the parent.  My fear is that the child will go to waiting list hell (the child does have a bad reputation, deserved or not).  How much of a blow will it be to the child's development?  Or, will it be a blessing in disguise?    

Also, how to determine if the child really wants to be in the group.  Because the parent is determined that the child will. 

I think I'm still a little confused on your basic question. Again you cant do exactly what your blaming the parent of doing and micromanage............you should base your recommendation for placement based on your opinion as to the BEST placement for this child and parent if that is the criterai for placement. If they end up on a waiting list, there's not much you can do about that. Whether it's a blow to their deveoplment or not will have to be dealt with (by the parents). Our kids get disappointed and excluded from stuff ALL THE TIME. It is lousy, but that is how it is. For my daughter she's becoming stronger. She's pretty well able to handle most disappointment.

Social groups and activities for this age group is very important. If the child struggles socially, however, just putting them in any old group of same age peers wont help. They need to be matched with a positive peer group. Meaning of the same emotional and maturity level. This si where our kids struggle as most things are based on chronological age.

My daughter (turning 14) is going to a new school program that places the children in classrooms, solely by peer grouping. She will be wil 13-22 year olds. They work around the academics and grade level work, they push the peer groups.

I'm not sure any of this helps you, but..............

I have a sensitive question and would like to get some honest feedback.  It's difficult to get factual information because the topic evokes such strong emotional reactions.Let me explain.  I am trying to protect this person's identity and privacy, so please, bear with me.  

I am the adult-in-charge (volunteer) for a youth organization and one of my members isn't doing so well.  I have to make a placement recommendation for this member for next year.  I thought I had made a reasoned, well thought-out choice, but the parent is unhappy.  So now I have to try to find a different group that is not as well-equipped to handle this child (these are just regular parents who volunteer).  And my instincts are telling me that the child is not the problem. 

Don't get me wrong, the kid's a brat - just like every single other kid I've ever had in my group.  Which tells me that the kid is normal.  The problem that I have is the undermining of my authority by the parent.  I have a strict policy of the same rules apply to everyone - no exceptions.  They all eat the same thing, do the same things, same sleeping arrangements, chores, etc.  This fosters cohesiveness.  This parent does not support that.  In fact, I would say that this parent actively thwarts my policy by word and deed - not maliciously, just out of sheer habit. 

My biggest pet peeve is the constant eating of junkfood.  It's not snacktime, everyone doesn't get one, we're supposed to be working on an art project, etc.  The parent says she wants the child in this group for "socialization."  I don't understand - you want the child in the group, but the child doesn't have to follow the same rules?  And I use the term "rules" loosely here, meaning I don't think it's right or fair to have 12 kids standing around watching 1 kid eat an ice cream.

Honestly, the child does not appear to want to even be in the group.  I say this because when the parent does appear - the child drops everything and goes directly to the parent.  The child clings - which I would do too if I was up and gone 12 hours a day at school & daycare.  It's also just those two - no one else is "capable" of caring for the child. 

I see both sides, from both parent's perspective and teacher/other adult's perspective.  The part that bothers me is the "You will never be able to pay attention, achieve this, comprehend that, or succeed - so stay in your place, down below me where I can micromanage everything you do because you're just not capable."  I believe that the child is more interested in spending precious and rare one-on-one time with the parent, than in being part of any group.

I would seriously like to know your thoughts and please don't rake me over the coals.       

 

You're asking advice on how to tell a parent their kid needs to shape up or ship out and that your opinion is the correct one?  No wonder you're worried about being raked over the coals.

Your post missed a number of important details.  I understand that you don't want to make the child obvious to other people, but we don't live in your area, we would never be able to figure out which child you're talking about.  The first thing is, though maybe you're inferring it by posting here, does the child have ADHD?  The second is, does the child need interventions because of it?  Because, if that's the case, then you're right, it's not the child who's the problem, you are with your strict policies.

Now that's I've completely alienated you, let me give you an alternate perspective.  Kids with ADHD need consistant schedules.  You might have a schedule, but I guarentee it's different than the one the child had before they started your program.  Kids with ADHD need extra time transitioning, including adapting to a new schedule.  Have you taken that into account?  That could very well be what the parents are "micromanaging" - attempting to keep a schedule in place for their child.

You say your pet peeve is junk food.  You said it all right there - it's your problem, and your problem only.  Many children with ADHD respond well to goals/rewards and poorly to discipline.  You might think it's some kind of repulsive bribe, but did you ever think that the "junk food" is a mid-day reward and reminder for positive behavior?

You claim you're concerned about the other children missing out (sorry, I tend to think you just want to control the situation from the tone of your post).  My son goes to a daycare where other kids are allowed to bring their own snacks, and he'll tell me about how this kid brought Oreo's or whatever.  You know what?  It doesn't do him a bit of harm to "miss out."  He totally understands that the other child gets what he brought and he gets what he gets.  It's different, but that's okay, because he gets other things the other child doesn't.  It's a good lesson for him to learn that the world isn't about being equal and the same in every instance, and that's okay.

You have seriously judged the parents' position and behavior in a way that seems completely unfair to me.  Have you asked them why they are doing what they are doing?  Have you educated yourself at all about children with ADHD?

My biggest concern with you is that by being so regimented you are pushing the child out.  If it's "my way or the highway," and a child can't conform to that because of their ADHD, you are doing piles of damage.  If you can't bend, then you should admit that failure to the parents and advise them to take their child out of that environment.

So finally, my advice to you is educate yourself.  Find out what the behaviors of the child mean, both in general and by talking to the parents.  And understand that what the child needs will always trump what you want.

OK, ummmm, I'm not sure what you mean by rake you over the coals.........

I think it's wonderful that you even care enough about this child to seek out advice on how to help him/her. The child parent however is the parent and should be allowed to raise their child how they see fit. LOTS of people dont do the right thing or best thing, just what they think is best. Do not overstep your bounds. You can only do what you can do within your constraints. All decisions are ultimately the parents. I do not think you should alter the rules to meet the childs whims. Snacking only at snack time is completely reasonable. Saying the child shouldn't be left for 12 hours isn't. That is the parents call. My sister is an assistant director at a daycare. Her biggest pet peeve are parents who "dump their kids". Meaning drop the off the second they can and pick them up late. Take vacations form work and still leave thier kids for 10 hour days at daycare. I tell her all the time.....leave it alone, you dont know all the details. I know stay at home parents who are worse parents than families that have 2 10 hour a day working parents. EVERY situation is unique.

You should do everything you can, advice whatever you think is best and recommend the best placement option YOU feel is right for this child. Hopefully the parent will make the right decision.

On the parents side, I am probably a micro manager at times, but my daughter does struggle with making appropriate decisions and hse is in her early teens and my MAIN priority is her safety. If it takes her longer to grow up because I've overprotected, so be it. My 6 year old does not have her issues and is MUCH more independant, but she CAN be. However, I actually appreciate when people tell em to BACK off and give her some space , I get caught up in my routine. It all depends on how I'm told and in what context...........

Not sure if I really helped you in all that rambling, but I really feel for you and love that you care so much, but being a parent of a kid who ahs a LOT of needs and a micro manager myslef at times, I was trying to be the parent there too.......

Unfortunately Diane is right.  It is ultimately the parents choice on how to raise their child.  You may want to point out the rules to her again and insist that she follow them though.

It is very hard when your child has issues.  You want to keep them happy and safe.  However, I have never coddled my daughter.  She is 9 years old and is very independent at times.  There are times though that she is clingy and wants me to do everything for her.  I don't but she still tries it.  But there are parents that have to micromanage their children in order for the child to function properly (not sure if that's the right phrase).  It depends on the child and the parent.

I used to be one of those parents that had to leave their child at day care for 10 hours a day but it was out of pure necessity.  Without knowing her whole situation it's hard to judge.

It's great that you care.  Most daytime caregivers could care less.

pattyq -- since this involves 4 hrs. a month max and a Saturday here and there, I would suggest that you follow the parent's lead. The likelihood that the parent is more knowledgeable regarding ADHD and the child's specific needs is high. ADHD is a very complex condition, and there is a huge variation in the way that it can present.

As far as thinking that the child can take or leave social activities/groups, this is really a leap. Distraction is HUGE for some ADHD children. They can be quite interested in and benefiting from a social group activity, but become distracted. And I mean, they can become distracted by a piece of fuzz on the carpet. Generally ADHD children need more social exposure b/c this is where they need help. You just cannot make a black & white interpretation.

Jessica N39610.9080439815

Tough one.  ADHD kids tend to not follow the rules easily and if this child is medicated, the parents are well aware of the child's limitations.

Not knowing any of the parties, I would guess that maybe the scouts is not the proper organization for this child. 

Not much you can do, I'm afraid. You are obviously a caring person because you are so emotionally involved with this kid.  If this was school, your opinions would carry more weight with the parents.

Make your recommendations based on what you feel is right.  If the child gets put in a different group and his needs are not being met, well, as cruel as this sounds, it's not your problem anymore - you advised against it.

Give the parents some slack  - it's hard enough to raise kids yet alone a child with ADHD. 

Schools make accomodations for kids diagnosed with ADHD.  If you wanted to, you could make an apt. with the parents and ask about accomodations they think their child needs,and then you'd be able to give them your perspective and observations as well.

Good luck.