how much more obstinate can you get? | ADHD Information

I hated getting praise as a kid because I took it to mean that there must be something wrong with me if my mother felt the need to praise me. If she complimented me on how well I cleaned my room, I took it mean that she didn't normally like it. If she commented on my pretty blouse, I would take it to mean that for it to stand out so much for her to comment, I must dress lousy normally.

I think it's a by-product of low self-esteem. I agree with the above poster and just say `Great game!' instead of being specific.

Touching seems to help with my son. If I give him a quick hug around the shoulders while I compliment him, he just accepts it. It also helps when I give him figures to show he's improved, because he likes numbers/math.

Thanks for all the replies. As I read through them I just kept thinking "I know this- what's wrong with me!" Isn't that always the way though- frustration seems to blind us to the obvious.

Luvmykids- I think you hit the nail on the head with the self-esteem issue. I agree that praise should be genuine. I didn't mean to give the impression that I praised every little thing (re-reading my post I realize it sounded like that). I run a daycare from my home and with 5 little ones and a couple school age kids I don't have time to overload any one child with praise. It just takes a lot of mindfulness on my part to make sure I'm noting when he's being good since it's so easy to overlook that in the chaos.

Over the years working with kids I've learned that the generic "good job" stuff doesn't work- its meaningless with out some sort of specific info and I have, in recent years, trained myself not to let that slip out of my mouth without considering what the child has actually done. When praise is specific it lets the child know that you are actually paying attention to them and to their accomplishments.

Corrina- I agree about touching- it often seems to help, although I've learned from experience that if he's already edgey or irritable I need to keep my distance.

Diane- thanks for reminding me that some kids just like to argue- he does seem to enjoy a good argument. It's very stimulating. I sometimes think he'd make a good lawyer- unfortunately he doesn't seem to feel the need for his argument to be based in any kind of fact.

andarah- I reacted similarly to praise from my mother. Out of curiousity, was/is your mother very critical? Did she hold you to excessively high standards? My mother's praise always seemed very contrived and was almost always followed by "but. . . " If I showed her a test I got an 98% on she would ask what happened to the other 2 points. So when she did praise me for something without piggy-backing it with a criticism I would end up looking for something wrong too.

What do you do when your child will not even accept praise or a compliment without arguing?

We've been trying to build good behavior and habits by being very attentive with praise and compliments whenever DS (10, adhd) does anything even partly good. He's responds very well to the point earning component of what we're doing, but about 75% of the time he argues when I praise him!

For example: "J- you handled that really well, I know sometimes it can be frustrating when the frosted flakes are gone and that's what you really wanted to eat." He then proceeded to scream/cry and throw his bowl even though he had already gotten out a different cereal, and he was fine until I said that.

Another example: His baseball team is in #1 place going into the semi-finals, last night won against another really good team "Wow- you played really well out there tonight. I could tell you were really paying attention and had your head in the game. Great effort- it really paid off." He spent the rest of the car ride expounding upon the many ways he was not actually putting in an effort/paying attention.

Why can't he just accept a compliment? All the literature on adhd agrees that the reward centers in these kids brains do not work as well so they need more external rewards. Why does my child fight it?

Another recent conversation: Me: "great job today- you earned all your points" Him (in a nasty voice): "it wasn't great" Me (jokingly) "should I take them off then? Him: "no, but it wasn't a great day!"

It just makes me want to scream. You all know how much effort it takes to pay attention to their every action looking for something to praise- I'm begining to feel like I'm wasting my time and a little worried that one day soon I'm just going to lose it and call him on being the miserable ungrateful wretch that he is.

Thanks for letting me vent. Any insite is welcome.

Could you just say..."Good Game" The way you phrased it "I could tell you were really paying attention and had your head in the game" maybe he thinks you don't think he always puts effort in. ? Can you call attention to the fact that he does well with out pointing out that sometimes he doesn't? Does that make sense? I am weird I know. If he says he had a bad day maybe instead of saying (even jokingly) that you should take points away then...you could just ask him what makes him feel that way. I mess up alot but I try to praise my son the same as I'd praise the other without calling attention to the fact that he's differnent. Geez I am doing a bad ob of explaining this sorry. Now I am making you want to scream too! ha ha

I know what you mean- We've actually been trying to be more specific on the advise of the therapist. I didn't really think of it as pointing out a flaw since he's well aware that he doesn't pay attention and his teammates will call him on it. It's kind of a fine line, since I really think it's important to be specific and call attention to it when he is paying attention since he spends so much time be told to pay attention (even if it's not in those words).

I guess the real problem is that he's so unpredictible in his reactions. There's just no way of knowing how he's going to react. Now, I'm a big fan of written observation - I have hundreds of collective hours of notes going back 6 years- and neither I nor the therapist has been able to see a pattern or common thread beyond the obvious transitioning trouble.

I hope I didn't sound judgemental. I know no matter how much I tell Wyatt to pay attention he just can't and i only make it worse.

jakerrock54....it seems that your son is suffering from issues of very low self esteem which is not uncommon for the adhd child. Praise is very good positive reinforcement but these children do not beleive in themselves because they have been put down and slammed all too often in their very young lives. If the child feels the praise is just being given to foster better behavior rather than a genuine compliment its ineffective and the child becomes resentful as the message is :I'm trying to get you to be good". Instead of praising for every action, save the praise for when your child has truly shown effort or has made better choices than he has in the past. They fight the compliment when they feel its not truly deserved or again, when they feel the compliment is given for the wrong reason.

I can so relate how frustrating this is for you and while you feel the child is ungreatful, acutally he doesn't feel worthy and also becomes immune when compliments are given at every turn. This has just been my personal experience with my son as I used to do the same thing. I had to learn why it wasnt working and the more I understood, the less angry and frustrated I would get. Just my two cents worth.

A couple of thoughts...

Maybe he is having such a hard time with it because he has high expectations for himself and he isn't living up to those. So when you praise him for something you think is great, to him it he didn't meet his own "personal bar", so he is frustrated.

I know that you need to catch them doing good and praise them for that, but maybe instead of the immediate feedback, you delay the praise until later in the day or maybe as you talk at the end of the day. With the breakfast incident - maybe he was still fuming inside that what he wanted wasn't available and when you said something, it set him off. Later in the day, you'd be farther removed from the situation, and you could just say something like "I was really proud of how you how you handled your self this morning at breakfast" or with the game "Congrats on winning the game, you played a great game today" and be a little less specific.

I agree with luvmykids, I think sometimes going over the top with prasie is counterproductive. Although praise is HUGE! Sometimes the less said the better. They know, I catch my kids saying to me "Good job Mom", I think they're teasing me .

Also, my 6 year old (not diagnosed with ADHD)does this sometimes, and I think she just likes to argue. I usually just back off. Do as suggested above, like say great game tonight, I hope you had fun, then drop it.

I can actually relate to this myself - my husband is very complimentary and I am the one who gets upset. An example - he'll say "You look really nice in those shorts" and I'll immediately say "With these legs - I look horrendous and you know it"...then proceed to pout, because (a) he does notice my legs and how can he not see they're horrible and (b) he reminded me that I hate my legs!

OK, so it could be possible that your son is going through the same thought process. Just a guess, but since I can relate to him maybe thats the case.

Maybe instead of compliments for particular tasks you can just tell him how much you care about him. Sounds like you are working on this with a therapist, so possibly the therapist can help with how to handle his reactions.

Good luck.

She was critical, but not in the way you said. She criticized my clothes, my weight, my lack of friends, etc. She was trying to help me, but didn't know how. I was also smart enough to know that her praise was an attempt at veiled behaviour modification. Thanks for pointing that out. I've never figured that out, but I transfered it to my DH. He cannot win with his compliments because I always see the negative. Maybe I can work with that now.

For your son, what about letting go of the praise altogether, and simply being with him? My DS gets far more security from physical contact with us than from praise. I don't know how old your DS is, but mine is 8 and he loves tickles, cuddles, and having his torso squeezed (it's a sensory thing). When I am doing those things, I can sprinkle in praise with the laughter. As we are giggling, I can breathlessly tell him (when he is distracted) that he did an amazing job on his presentation, or something else.

Sorry to say this but that positive parenting stuff doesn't work. Try being real. He knows right from wrong. If you want to change his behavior make it worth his while. Offer something other than some phony praise as motivation.

Rebounder

The problem is that there is no effective behavioral treatment for ADHD.

Rebounder

[QUOTE=rebounder]

The problem is that there is no effective behavioral treatment for ADHD.

Rebounder

Behavior modification standing alone does not effectively treat the symptoms of ADHD but in combination with effective medication, a good behavioral plan works very well.

Rebounder - are you sure you don't work at my son's school?

My son does tremendously well with a system of goals and rewards. He has to be reminded to stay on track extremely often, but he wants to meet his goals, and he knows if he backslides a bit it's okay, but it's his responsibility to turn back around if he wants to get his reward. And my son is not medicated.

Maybe you're looking at this topic a bit differently than I am. The goals/rewards system has nothing at all to do with pointing out when my son has done a good job at something. I absolutely make a distinction between keeping his ADHD in check and praising him for his output. I use different phrases and everything.

If he's done something well or made an improvement - and it could be in any area - I will point it out. I thing the reason he resists it is because he sees that there are other kids who are doing "better" in those areas, and he wants to do better himself. It's very hard for him to understand that he's not going to be the best at everything he tries, and that's okay, he should still try it, and if he keeps working on it he will do better. It's part of his lack of executive skills - he doesn't see his progression - so I make sure I point it out to him when I see it.

Rebounder- Behavior modification and positive parenting both work very well (in conjunction with meds for my adhd child). I've been doing both for many years- way before my son's dx. The issue with arguing and not accepting it is recent. The praise is not phony- I'm not praising him for stupid little things- I'm giving him positive verbal feedback on things we are working on and making it a point to compliment him on doing things that are exceptional or that he does not ordinarily do.

He gets so much negative feedback (I try to keep it to a minimum but there's safety to think about) that it really does need to be balanced out with the positive. I had backed off with the praise (because I was getting so much negative feedback from him) and he noticed. Yesterday morning after he dropped an egg on the floor after I told him twice to set it down and then threw a fit because I wouldn't cut him pancake for him (he's 10 ) he complained that he only ever gets yelled at and no one says anything nice to him. I explained that I thought he didn't like when I praised him so much because he was arguing with me so much when I did. He told me he still likes for me to tell him those things even if he says they're not true and that he doesn't know why he argues about it.

I have no idea why couldn't have told me this weeks ago- it's almost like there has to be a certain amount of drama before he can communicate.

I just saw him scurrying out of the cabinet with the hot glue gun- time for me to go.

[QUOTE=rebounder]

Luvmykids02,

Right on the mark. The tandem. However, can you point out an effective method of behavioral training for severe behavioral symptoms to use in conjunction with an appropriate dose of a stimulant medication presribed by a psychiatrist? I don't think so. The concept is correct because the meds will knock down the intensity of the symptoms but cannot teach the new behavior that is required. It simply makes it possible. You still need tools to work with.

Rebounder

Behavioral training is very individualized and tailored to the child's needs so there is no "one size fits all" behavioral treatment". The medication allows the child the ability to make a choice rather than act on impulse so making good or better choices could be taught in social skills training classes which is the tool in conjuction with medication. No, the medication is not a behaviorial pill and other tools are needed in conjuction but I mention that in most of my post.

Luvmykids0239616.4564351852

Corrina,

Since your son does not require medication his symptoms must primarily be in the area of attention deficit Typye 1 ADHD. That puts his symptoms in the mild range. You are right on course with treatment. Pointing out his successes is actually helpful because he could actually suffer from poor self-esteem due to not keeping up with peers. When the behavioral symptoms are severe self esteem isn't so fragile or critical as the child's faulty social perceptions render him unaware that he is different than others and believing he is correct about everything as well. Your assumptions as to why he resists accepting compliments- who knows? Lack of executive skills affects function more than perceptions, as you said organizing, awareness of time, planning, etc. In your situation no harm can come from excessive verbiage, other than your feelings get hurt when he asks you to refrain from doing it. With severe behavioral symptoms that stuff can cause problems as it invites discussions, which are actually arguments.

Rebounder

Luvmykids02,

Rebounder

jaderock54,

Was not cutting his pancake a punishment or something that just made you feel better. A little revenge?

Rebounder

Jaderock54,

I forgot something. Let's cut right to the core. Keep the praise. Give money. Make it worth his while and he will give your poposals some serious consideration.

Rebounder.

Rebounder,

I refused to cut my 10 year old's food simply because he is capable of doing it for himself. I stopped cutting his food for him a couple years ago- every once in a while he gets it in his head that I should do it anyway. I'm not mean about it- just matter of fact, and if he really does need help I give it, but we're talking about a pancake here. I think it sends kids the wrong message when we do thinks for them that they are capable of- why undermine all the efforts to build up self-esteem by reinforcing that they aren't good enough by doing things for them?

rebounder,

I admit it is hard to distinguish the tone of someone's post and I may be being judgemental myself but...you seem to have missed the point of this forum. We are all here to get support and advice. Yes, we have to take criticism as well, but it seems you are just looking to bash jaderock with you pancake comment. I have a 10 year old step daughter at home who still has daddy cut her food only because she's spoiled. My 6 and 8 year old can cut their own most of the time and she does too when daddy isn't around. If you are posting here to help because you care or to ask questions then great, but if it's only to be mean then you should go somewhere else. We all have enough nasty people in our lives. If I have misread then please accept my apology.

[QUOTE=rebounder]

Jaderock54,

I forgot something. Let's cut right to the core. Keep the praise. Give money. Make it worth his while and he will give your poposals some serious consideration.

Rebounder.

A child with ADHD will only start demonstrate appropriate behavior and start to recognize their self worth as a result of proper treatment, interventions and strategies. This is what jaderrock is trying to acheive. Bribery with money does not teach the child why he should exhibit good behavior or follow rules. It teaches them that if they do they will get money. Thats a short term solution to a long term problem. The core problems are not being corrected or modified.

This is a support forum, not a place to criticise parents or finger point. Your posts are inflammatory and unless your coming here to be support and give practical advice, please refrain from posting period.

[QUOTE=rebounder]

jaderock54,

Was not cutting his pancake a punishment or something that just made you feel better. A little revenge?

Rebounder

[/QUOTE]

Rebounder this sort of does sound like you're just trying to pick a fight? What's the point in that?

Parents who have older children can be a great support to parents of younger children, I read an older post of yours and it seems you have already raised an ADHD child. The parents of younger kids and newly diagnosed kids look to the senior members and parents of older children to share their experiences. Your comments to others on this thread will be read by those people. Jaderock is not new and knows what she's doing so I know she wont take offense, she'll just disregard your comments, but some of the younger and/or less epxerienced family members won't know what to think.

Just a thought: Maybe the praise he receives makes him feel he has to keep up the good work, and adds stress. example: My daughter expressed that she gets more stressed when I praise too much, because she's afraid she can't keep it up.

Also when he argues just ignore him, rather than getting into it. My ADHD so loves to argue over everything. Too much gooshy praise for him aggravated him, so I kept it really minimum: good job in baseball today.

Jaderock, I think it is great that you praise your child. I think and have always thought that society is hard enough on our kids. And that their house should always be a place where they can feel safe. It is very important to uplift our kids, since many others tend to tear them down. I also agree with coonstructive criticism as well. I love to catch my boys being good. That is worth fifteen minutes of extra time to do what ever they want. Good job. You are doing great.

Thank you for bringing that up. It is a natural way of perceiving my commments. I tend to get to the point with this limited format. We all know how are emotoins can be provoked by our frustrations. It's not in our best interest to respond emotonally because that changes the whole dynamic of the transaction where as consistent responses, matter of factly, teach that the child's behavior is not effective, nothing changes as a result of it. If you don't cut pancakes you don't cut them, certainly not in response to a bad behavior. Not to say if all is going well you can't say, hey, do you want me to cut those. I wouldn't. I think things went well with the pancakes.

I forgot the money issue. I only used money for school grades. A high priority which that reward was used exclusively for. My point was if you want something from your child and they have ADHD you have to make it worth their while, not

money though. There is a method of training that doesn't involve giving or taking per se. It involves contingency management where the issue is access to something controlled by the parent and contingent upon behavior, it occurring or its absence. This method never employs time-outs or restraints. Best time to teach a child this lifestyle is ages 4-7.

Rebounder

Jaderock,

I couldn't agree more. The context in which you discussed it gave the wrong impression.

Rebounder

By the way, my son has inattentive/hyperactive type ADHD, but despite being a pretty heavy case (most of his doctor's and neuropsychologist's patients testing at his level are medicated), my son responds very well to environmental (behavioral) modifications, and until he doesn't respond to modifications, we've decided not to medicate him.

As my son illustrates, all children are different even when they test with the same condition.

And my son doesn't care less about money. He collects state quarters, that's about it. Bribing him with money would never work. Bribing him with time - even extra time so he can read to himself (and he's six - am I lucky or what?) is what works for him.

So do you have an actual incidence where money worked to curb ADHD behaviors? Go ahead and give us the story. We might be able to adapt it to our children.