biggest topics of concern | ADHD Information
OK, I'm going to start on the blog and decided to ask you all what interests you most. So, what do you all want to know about most?
do you want to know about certain medications? The way the decision process is made for the school to do testing for the IEP or 504? Or about the way your child learns the best in studying for tests: remember, I'm adhd and my son is too so I can you you an inside view of what all goes on inside the brain. If you want to know about how the parents rights at the school in your state, post it here on this thread, I'll work on it. Or if you want to know about the best way to get your child to take meds, just say so. I'll address any questions you may have. We will make it an open forum. I have a moderator that will help with the one liner questions here, but as for the research, those will be blogged and you can click on my signature here to read it. I'll put on this thread when I post a new one and what the topic is about each time I publish one. So, there is no topic pertaining to adhd that is off limits (well, almost no topic lol).
So, put your thinking caps on and start asking those questions. And remember any one can answer if they think they have the answer, it is a discussion forum.
And The only stupid question is the one that is NOT asked!
I want to know more information about coffee vs. medication. any info would be helpful.
[QUOTE=smskinner]I want to know more information about coffee vs. medication. any info would be helpful. [/QUOTE]
Coffee like ADHD meds is a stimulant therefore a drug as well. I guess some people feel more confortable ingesting caffiene because a prescription is not needed. Coffee is considered a "dirty stimulant". There is tons of information all over the internet if your looking for more information. Also, the blog is very informative.
I guess what I am looking for is this I am wondering if I switched from coffee to meds and all things being equal as far as mg is there going to be a difference or does the body react the exactly same? ok, check out the blog...Great blog ogram. In reading it I learned a lot about caffeine. Thanks
one of the things with coffee is you adjust to it and then need more and more caffeine to have the same "effect". Too much caffeine also has many side effects.
Everyone's body reacts differently to both caffeine AND to stimulant meds. Even med to med is different, there's no blanket answer. If what your doing works for you there's no reason to change really. If you think trying a different apporach is what you'd like, you should give it a try. No decision is a permanent one. There is also no right or wrong answer.
[QUOTE=smskinner]I guess what I am looking for is this I am wondering if I switched from coffee to meds and all things being equal as far as mg is there going to be a difference or does the body react the exactly same? [/QUOTE]
AHHH, I understand. I wish I could answer that for you. But, I can't. And I don't think a doctor could either. Each drug interacts differently person to person. Mainly because of the different chemicals added into the make up. I will hunt Luvmykids down for this question, she is really good with this kind of tech question.
I just wanna be partially sane again!
MetisRebel39788.9616666667
smskinner--
if you are already diagnosed, then you could trial at least one med (Vyvanse) free (30 day trial coupon from Shire) for the cost of a visit to your doctor for the script. That's the cheapest way I can think of.... as for your concern of wasting "time" trailing an adhd med, well, I guess you are impatient! You might think that responses from this message board would allow you to conclude meds aren't for you; but without a trial, you'll never really know.
ps. sounds like you may be a lucky one... if caffiene is as effective as meds, the choice is clear... coffee is ubiquitous, cheap, and lawfully posessed by anyone--from infants to the infirm--not so with the stimulants!
Hi,I am brand new. I want to learn more about dealing with grandparents. My son's (paternal) grandparents only live 2 hours away, and in good health, yet we only see them a couple of times a year (compared to my dad, who lives 4 hours away and is in somewhat poor health) because they can't *stand* my son. (I admit my dad can be too soft, but usually we are around to make sure medications are taken and routines enforced--he is always a very loving grandfather, which means a lot to me).
My inlaws are old fashioned and very authoritarian. They seem to think our son's medically diagnosed and treated ADHD is just "bad behavior" and that my husband and I are permissive, slackard parents. They have told us he is unruly, inattentive, and rude. They rarely hug him, and they are never verbally affectionate.
Our son has been diagnosed and treated with Metadate for a year now. He sees his doctor every other month and is doing very well in school (he has a great teacher). We use behavior management in the form of careful routines, visual aids (i.e. charts and calendars), and things like "homework areas," etc. Yes, he can be very frustrating sometimes, and of course we get tired and discouraged and fed up (especially in the post-Metadate/pre-bedtime period of the day). But overall, he is a good kid.
So--I just don't know what to do. The obvious answer is that we avoid them. Still, they are my husband's parents and he loves them (even though he caves into them like sand in surf re: our son). Also, on occasion (once or twice this year), we have had an emergency and had to ask them to keep our son overnight. Afterwards, all I heard were subtle jabs about his "smart alec" comments and "ungrateful" behavior. (I think our son asked something like would there be a lot of presents this year at Christmas or something like that--and once, while "zoning out," he missed answering a question, and got yelled at).
These are educated people, so I am currently trying to assemble some medical and psychological articles about ADHD in hopes of appealing to their logic. We have to go to their house for a night over Christmas, and I am trying to figure out how to survive without calling my doctor for major tranquilizers for me. ;0
Does anyone have any suggestions to improve relations and get these people to understand that ADHD kids want to be loved by their grandparents, too?
Thanks,
Dee
Oh dear, an ADHD kid and disapproving grandparents for Christmas--the ADHD overstimulated and driven to madness by chocolate, crowds, toys and bright lights time of the year.
Hon, you are truly doomed
Okay, now that my sick sense of humour has been sated let's get on with it, shall we?
You can try appealing to logic--but if these grandparents were really all that "smart' they'd have realized that you were telling them the truth about the child in the first place and have researched it, already. They are stuck in their beliefs about child rearing and how children are "supposed" to behave. You've explained this until you're blue in the face, already.
Unless you want to glue them to their chairs with their eyelids taped open to watch Lee Evans and "Over the Hedge" for a week--it's not that they don't "get it"--they don't want to "get it". They are stuck in their opinion.
And before we go any further--I wanna know what *I* am getting for Christmas, too
This is gonna suck sister--but I am gonna lay it on ya...
...You can't make people care about an ADHD kid, or any other kid for that matter.
They are not going to get over their bigotry. And that's what this is, plainly. It's mental health bigotry. Their grandson, bless the little fella, is NOT a perfect little controlled robot gentleman complete with an installed code of refined manners.
If they're looking for perfect etiquette for Christmas--they should've invited Jeeves the Butler.
He's a wild child with a brain that runs 90 miles per minute and no 'tact stopper' between brain and mouth. He can be more fun than a bag full of Jack Russell puppies and just about as energetic and destructive.
My advice?
Take the little fella, ENJOY HIM and as much as you can--ignore them. Go body skiing in the backyard, rip open the gifts at full speed ahead, throw snowballs, overdose on chocolate and when he's tired enough or medicated enough to pay attention--send him around to thank everyone.
As long as he's not pounding out a cousin or two, or actually hurting anyone--what's the deal? He's not Hannibal Lecter here--he's a little kid with ADHD at Christmas.
If he's too squirrelly--send him outside [or go with him] and run it off.
Get down on the floor and play with him and any other kids around and enjoy yourself and let them tsk tsk to their heart's content.
Cuz they are missing the best bits
Having just met you, I already think you are awesome, and I'm both LOL and giving myself a well deserved boohoo, because are right. ;0
Part of this may be that he's an only child (I'm an older mom, hah hah, and got a late start at all this parenting stuff) and they have no idea what "real" children are like. But yes, I've often had the "robot" metaphor come to mind when listening to their expectations about children.
You sure you don't have any Valium to pass around?
Seriously, point taken and good advice. One way *I* have learned to cope (when I'm ready to pull my hair out) is think, 'How does the world look through his eyes right now?' and take some joy in that--on vacation, out in the world, playing with dogs, etc. That has been a life saver.
Mental health bigotry is a new concept for me--I've never even thought about it perhaps because as a teacher, well, I work with lots of different students of all kinds of ability/interest, etc. But it makes perfect sense once I thought about it.
Doomed and loving it
Thanks for listening,
dee
[QUOTE=graiae66]Having just met you, I already think you are awesome, and I'm both LOL and giving myself a well deserved boohoo, because are right. ;0
See?
Now your kid could turn out just like me--well, with your extensive teaching experience--much better
Part of this may be that he's an only child (I'm an older mom, hah hah, and got a late start at all this parenting stuff) and they have no idea what "real" children are like. But yes, I've often had the "robot" metaphor come to mind when listening to their expectations about children.
Exactly. You're been around kids, you know something about child psychology. You understand that children are not miniature adults--they're actually Martians who are hiding here due to the Venuvian Invasion.
I'm beginning to wonder how your poor hubby survived his childhood years
You sure you don't have any Valium to pass around?
I have some Ritalin SR you're welcome to try. Now I could lend you some, however--the child might be short a grandparent or two when the holidays are over.
Seriously, point taken and good advice. One way *I* have learned to cope (when I'm ready to pull my hair out) is think, 'How does the world look through his eyes right now?' and take some joy in that--on vacation, out in the world, playing with dogs, etc. That has been a life saver.
Mental health bigotry is a new concept for me--I've never even thought about it perhaps because as a teacher, well, I work with lots of different students of all kinds of ability/interest, etc. But it makes perfect sense once I thought about it.
Think about it for a second. How would others respond if you're little fella had dyslexia? Would they keep telling him to read a note? What if he had schizophrenia--would they tell him that what he sees isn't real? Would they tell him to "calm down" if he was bipolar, or "cheer up" if he suffered depression?
Would they treat him like a third class citizen?
Doomed and loving it
Being nuts is definitely advantageous in some situations.
dee
[/QUOTE]
How old is the little hobbit, anyway?
[QUOTE=graiae66] .....My inlaws are old fashioned and very authoritarian. They seem to think our son's medically diagnosed and treated ADHD is just "bad behavior" and that my husband and I are permissive, slackard parents. They have told us he is unruly, inattentive, and rude.
.....Also, on occasion (once or twice this year), we have had an emergency and had to ask them to keep our son overnight. Afterwards, all I heard were subtle jabs about his "smart alec" comments and "ungrateful" behavior. [/QUOTE]
So graiae66, a lot of advice is given in books and other media to parents with adhd kids and to adults with adhd. A lot of the advice isn't all that useful, but one bit of advice I've found very useful --and important-- is this: avoid people who don't appreciate you or don't understand you as you are. Seems like these grandparents fall squarely in that category. Call a Spade a Spade graiae66-- they may be your husband's parents, but they are bad news for your husband's son, who's your son too.
May I keep "stirring the pot" where metis left off by posing these questions?? Why on earth your husband isn't offended by his parent's criticisms of his son?? Why on earth stay over at the grandparent's home? If you don't want to do all that driving in one day... fine, rent a motel room and stay there overnight--not at grandparents' home where you are beholden to them and can't easily get a break from them and their critical eye and cold hearts. Ever think that these folks want you to visit so they can collect more "examples" of poor grandson behavior and toss it back at him and or him/you/your husband, hoping that they will sooner or later get you to "see the light" and do things "their way?" I say, time to put your foot down! If your husband needs the comfort and support of his parents over the holidays, let him stay with them--but you don't have to, and it sounds like your son shouldn't--not, at least, without both his parents looking out for him. Don't let these people harm you or your son's self esteem, and don't let them drive a wedge between you and your husband about how to raise your son. Which brings me back to the first question I posed!
p.s. oh yeah, I suggest you really look for another alternative other than these granparents for taking your son overnight on those occasional "emergencies". might there be another close family friend that could do this?
p.p.s. I suspect these ungrateful, critical, controling grandparents would losen up and behave much better once you and your husband break free of asking any favors of them as well as any familial obligations to visit with them. As long as they know you are obliged to spend time with them, they know that they can be critical with impunity--you'll always come back for more. Their criticalness may dissolve once they understand that they can't get away with it without suffering the consequences--you won't bother coming if all all you get in return are complaints and criticism.
I am brand new. I want to learn more about dealing with grandparents
Hi and welcome :)
My in laws are old fashioned and very authoritarian. They seem to think our son's medically diagnosed and treated ADHD is just "bad behavior" and that my husband and I are permissive, slackard parents. They have told us he is unruly, inattentive, and rude. They rarely hug him, and they are never verbally affectionate.
When did your in laws get their medical degree? I think they are ignorant and controlling and talk about rude, they have no respect for you and your husband as parents. The fact that they withhold affection towards your son tells me that they are also very cruel and emotionally detached. That poor little guy :(
Our son has been diagnosed and treated with Metadate for a year now. He sees his doctor every other month and is doing very well in school (he has a great teacher). We use behavior management in the form of careful routines, visual aids (i.e. charts and calendars), and things like "homework areas," etc. Yes, he can be very frustrating sometimes, and of course we get tired and discouraged and fed up (especially in the post-Metadate/pre-bedtime period of the day). But overall, he is a good kid.
You and your husband are doing a great job
Yes, things can get frustrating at times. Going back in time I can remember when my little Spiderman was literally climbing the walls at bedtime but now that he's grown I can have a sense of humor about it
While this can get very tiring, keep in mind that as your son grows older things will get better in that aspect.
These are educated people, so I am currently trying to assemble some medical and psychological articles about ADHD in hopes of appealing to their logic. We have to go to their house for a night over Christmas, and I am trying to figure out how to survive without calling my doctor for major tranquilizers for me. ;0
Well, educated people are not ignorant like this because educated people do a lot more listening than talking which is how one learns. Educated people want to learn. Ignorant people just want to be right and it seems that your in laws are "right fighters". A library full of articles will not enlighten them so save your energy and continue to channel it into your beautiful little boy. What your in laws think don't matter but your sons emotional well being matters more than anything. If your in laws are unaccepting of your child and prefer to remain ignorant, they must be told that they are hurting your son and you will no longer allow it in the future. If they are not going to be loving, nuturing grandparents then visits should be far and inbetween and under the condition they they keep their hurtful words and opinions to themselves. You have a beautiful child with a beautiful spirit and if they can't embrace all the wonderful things about your child and be accepting of his limitations then its their loss. Because they are your husband parents doesn't give them permission to be a destructive force in your sons life. You shouldn't have to convince your in laws that they should love and embrace your child. I find their behavior despicable and if they are looking to correct bad behavior they should start with their own. Please feel free to come her and vent anytime. We will calm you down
We live in a rural southern town, out in the country, 12 miles from town. My husband and I are both only children--we have no siblings nor any cousins to whom we are close (and they live anywhere from 5-10 hours away in any case). Our closest neighbors are nice folks and have been helpful to us on occasion, as have a few friends in town--but to ask for a day/night of kidsitting is one thing--four nights/three days of it because we had to be out of town for work-related meetings is a lot to ask. This year, it was just an odd situation--both of us had to be gone, my father was very sick, and...we had no other option.
I agree--they are not a good influence, but a lot of the expert literature also says, if possible, try to allow grandparents into a child's life. We certainly limit the influence and try to be there as a mitigating force--but this time, it was a fluke that we could not be there.
I can't answer why DH is not taking a stand with his parents. We have argued about it. Last year, when I completely lost my temper and yelled at his parents, he got mad at *me*, not them. It was very upsetting. I was deeply hurt. It is something we are still trying to resolve. Yet--other than the issues with his parents, we have a loving marriage, and he is an incredible dad--patient, always involved with our son, and a good partner, not to mention my best friend.
Delayed adolescence? Socio-cultural pressure? I don't know if you know much about the culture of family in this region of the world, but it is very strong/influential. Speaking anecdotally, even adult children tend to be very close to their families, specifically parents. I'm sort of an "outlier" in the sense that I am close only to my father, not any other relatives in my family. My students are always perplexed by it (My mother is deceased). I can't explain why DH is the way he is, not being a psychologist.
Further in that vein--to go see a relative and *not* stay with them is tantamount to standing in their face and making the rudest gestures possible (or saying the rudest thing possible). Example: We just returned from Thanksgiving with my father. He has an old house (this is a humid climate) full of mold--and I'm terribly allergic. I spent four days coughing, wheezing, and getting very little sleep. But to have told my dad we were not staying with him would have hurt him beyond belief. He's close to 80--and blind--and I'm not willing to upset him when I can just take a lot of allergy medication and try to deal with it.
Yes, the grandparents are cold. I can't explain that, either. I think metis got it right when she talked about mental bigotry. In their generation, any kind of "weakness" was avoided, hidden, or not discussed. They're in their 60s/70s. I can't change how they were raised.
So--my tactics have been: 1) avoidance if possible, 2) If a situation is such that we must be there, keeping DS in the downstairs den and away from them as much as possible, 3) on the rare (i.e. once a year) occasions we have had to ask them to let him stay overnight, remind them about what ADHD is and what to expect.
I guess what I am looking for is this (besides venting--and thanks for letting me do that
): some positive coping strategies. What do the 'experts' say about the best ways to educate grandparents who may be clueless? What tactics can parents use to explain ADHD to people who simply don't get it? Are there ways to minimize the stress on everyone when the situation is such that parents/child have to be around people who lack empathy and understanding? I did some Googling, and frankly, there's not much out there about working with grandparents. Thanks,
dee
[QUOTE=MetisRebel]
How old is the little hobbit, anyway?
[/QUOTE]
He's 7 1/2 and in second grade. How about yours? And you're in Canada, right? I had the great fortune to visit British Columbia last year--thought it was one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. :)
Dee
[QUOTE=graiae66]
I agree--they are not a good influence, but a lot of the expert literature also says, if possible, try to allow grandparents into a child's life. We certainly limit the influence and try to be there as a mitigating force--but this time, it was a fluke that we could not be there.
It happens. Plus some cultures see family in a much different way and cutting family out completely is sometimes impractical and often, not an option unless there is physical harm.
I can't answer why DH is not taking a stand with his parents. We have argued about it. Last year, when I completely lost my temper and yelled at his parents, he got mad at *me*, not them. It was very upsetting. I was deeply hurt. It is something we are still trying to resolve. Yet--other than the issues with his parents, we have a loving marriage, and he is an incredible dad--patient, always involved with our son, and a good partner, not to mention my best friend.
Okay, so you have a great spouse but this is his one blind spot. If fighting isn't getting you anywhere--maybe we need to look at other options?
Delayed adolescence? Socio-cultural pressure? I don't know if you know much about the culture of family in this region of the world, but it is very strong/influential.
What region are you in?
Speaking anecdotally, even adult children tend to be very close to their families, specifically parents. I'm sort of an "outlier" in the sense that I am close only to my father, not any other relatives in my family. My students are always perplexed by it (My mother is deceased). I can't explain why DH is the way he is, not being a psychologist.
Socio-cultural pressure would be my guess. Plus, he IS getting something out of the relationship. And I have to wonder if he's still trying to gain approval, himself.
Part of this may also be "in law" syndrome where we despise the in-law [and possibly the kid] because our relative is putting their foot down and it's easier to blame the "outsiders" for "influencing" our relative.
Further in that vein--to go see a relative and *not* stay with them is tantamount to standing in their face and making the rudest gestures possible (or saying the rudest thing possible). Example: We just returned from Thanksgiving with my father. He has an old house (this is a humid climate) full of mold--and I'm terribly allergic. I spent four days coughing, wheezing, and getting very little sleep. But to have told my dad we were not staying with him would have hurt him beyond belief. He's close to 80--and blind--and I'm not willing to upset him when I can just take a lot of allergy medication and try to deal with it.
I know what it's like with an elderly parent. I keep begging my mom not to wear perfume because it sets off asthma but the poor old dear's clothes are soaked in it--even if she isn't wearing any. I can't ask the her to clear the whole house.
I heave for air for days
Yes, the grandparents are cold. I can't explain that, either. I think metis got it right when she talked about mental bigotry. In their generation, any kind of "weakness" was avoided, hidden, or not discussed. They're in their 60s/70s. I can't change how they were raised.
Why don't we walk around in this one a bit?
There's also fear. Fear that it is NOT true that anyone can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". Fear that with one little synapse firing incorrectly can destroy one's control of one's life. Fear of that which is "different". Fear of what others [the Joneses] will think. Fear that if they become attached to the child, they don't want to be humiliated if he embarrasses them.
So--my tactics have been: 1) avoidance if possible, 2) If a situation is such that we must be there, keeping DS in the downstairs den and away from them as much as possible, 3) on the rare (i.e. once a year) occasions we have had to ask them to let him stay overnight, remind them about what ADHD is and what to expect.
Met with a "no" from whom? Grans or hubby?
I guess what I am looking for is this (besides venting--and thanks for letting me do that
): some positive coping strategies. What do the 'experts' say about the best ways to educate grandparents who may be clueless? What tactics can parents use to explain ADHD to people who simply don't get it? Are there ways to minimize the stress on everyone when the situation is such that parents/child have to be around people who lack empathy and understanding? I did some Googling, and frankly, there's not much out there about working with grandparents. Thanks,
dee
The world is full of judgmental people. You have a soft-hearted ADHD kid, two soft-hearted parents and a big mean world. What to do, what to do?
Well, you could *ask* the Grandparents, "What is your problem with this?" which of course, will cause the fur to fly
You could practise saying, "And your point is.................?" and "Why are you telling me this?"
You could give them humorous answers.
How is the little fella taking all this?
MetisRebel39782.4209143519 [QUOTE=graiae66] [QUOTE=MetisRebel]
How old is the little hobbit, anyway?
[/QUOTE]
He's 7 1/2 and in second grade. How about yours? And you're in Canada, right? I had the great fortune to visit British Columbia last year--thought it was one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. :)
Dee
[/QUOTE]
Yes BC is a stunner in places.
I have no children. I'm old enough to be a granny though
I've had 4 different foster kids at different times [one ADHD teen] and enough nieces and nephews to completely replace Santa's work force. I spent some years working in social services with a few different populations, the last being active drug users most of whom, had mental health struggles aka "concurrent" disorders.
I AM the ADHD'er in my life
[QUOTE=Luvmykids02]
When did your in laws get their medical degree? I think they are ignorant and controlling and talk about rude, they have no respect for you and your husband as parents. The fact that they withhold affection towards your son tells me that they are also very cruel and emotionally detached. That poor little guy :(
[/QUOTE]
Now I'm wondering if I overdid it with my descriptions, lol. They have never been overtly mean to my son's face--just detached and sort of uninterested--sometimes fussing at him and clearly showing frustration, but never physically abusive or cruel. Emotionally detached, definitely. They are more judgmental to me and DH than anything else.
[QUOTE=Luvmykids02]
You and your husband are doing a great job Yes, things can get frustrating at times. Going back in time I can remember when my little Spiderman was literally climbing the walls at bedtime but now that he's grown I can have a sense of humor about it While this can get very tiring, keep in mind that as your son grows older things will get better in that aspect.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. It has certainly been a learning curve! Our doctor said that children do tend to develop their own coping strategies as they get older--some can go off meds, some can't. I'm not too worried about that right now.
[QUOTE=Luvmykids02]
I find their behavior despicable and if they are looking to correct bad behavior they should start with their own. Please feel free to come her and vent anytime. We will calm you down
Thanks, it is very much appreciated. I guess this is all on my mind a lot because of the holidays coming up. How old is your Spiderman? Lol, that is funny since we've used that term ourselves on occasion.
Dee
[QUOTE=graiae66]
[/QUOTE]
Now I'm wondering if I overdid it with my descriptions, lol. They have never been overtly mean to my son's face--just detached and sort of uninterested--sometimes fussing at him and clearly showing frustration, but never physically abusive or cruel. Emotionally detached, definitely. They are more judgmental to me and DH than anything else.
[/QUOTE]
So you're getting the, "What kind of parent would let the kid act like {__________}" stuff?
[QUOTE=MetisRebel]
It happens. Plus some cultures see family in a much different way and cutting family out completely is sometimes impractical and often, not an option unless there is physical harm.
[/QUOTE]
Some of the things I wrote were in reply to John's post--I'm still getting the hang of the quote thing.
Anyway...there certainly has not been physical harm. We live in the southern US. It's a quirky place, lol. Except for urban areas, most cultural practices tend to be highly traditional (i.e. family focused, politically conservative, etc.)
My inlaws tend to be very conservative in all areas of their lives, not just child rearing. My DH is a moderate, and I'm...well, rather on the opposite end of the spectrum
. There are some topics we know just NOT to talk about. [QUOTE=MetisRebel]
Okay, so you have a great spouse but this is his one blind spot. If fighting isn't getting you anywhere--maybe we need to look at other options?
Socio-cultural pressure would be my guess. Plus, he IS getting something out of the relationship. And I have to wonder if he's still trying to gain approval, himself.
Part of this may also be "in law" syndrome where we despise the in-law [and possibly the kid] because our relative is putting their foot down and it's easier to blame the "outsiders" for "influencing" our relative.
[/QUOTE]
Blind spot--more like that part of his skull is missing. I do have to say DH and his mom are very close, and I wonder if at some point, he might approach her and say, "Look, I need you to understand Ian's ADHD and so on..." It might work.
The *irony* in all this is that I did not want kids all that much--partly yes, partly no. The *grandparents* were all over the kid thing. So you can see why I've got another level of frustration added in. Of course, I'm glad he's here now.
I know what it's like with an elderly parent. I keep begging my mom not to wear perfume because it sets off asthma but the poor old dear's clothes are soaked in it--even if she isn't wearing any. I can't ask the her to clear the whole house.
I heave for air for days
Yep, that's exactly it! None of us want to "change" elderly parents, even if they have their faults...because it's not really fair, is it, to ask someone with 7+ decades to get rid of their habits because they may annoy us. Of course--I draw the line at things like health issues--dad can't skip his medications or checkups just because he'd rather not go.
[QUOTE=MetisRebel]
There's also fear. Fear that it is NOT true that anyone can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". Fear that with one little synapse firing incorrectly can destroy one's control of one's life. Fear of that which is "different". Fear of what others [the Joneses] will think. Fear that if they become attached to the child, they don't want to be humiliated if he embarrasses them.
That's pretty profound about the fear aspect--fear of embaressment and "difference" from other kids. Yes, Ian can really blurt out some doozies. Like most children, he calls it like he sees it. Kids in general are tactless critters. I don't know exactly what he has said to them when I've not been around to monitor, but I do think he mentioned one time that he wished he could see them more often--and no response followed. Surely that had to be confusing.
Met with a "no" from whom? Grans or hubby?
Hubby--probably because it's "tradition." Maybe not this year, but maybe next we can start *changing* that tradition and make a *new* tradition.
[/QUOTE]
The world is full of judgmental people. You have a soft-hearted ADHD kid, two soft-hearted parents and a big mean world. What to do, what to do?
Well, you could *ask* the Grandparents, "What is your problem with this?" which of course, will cause the fur to fly
You could practise saying, "And your point is.................?" and "Why are you telling me this?"
You could give them humorous answers.
How is the little fella taking all this?
I think he is generally okay with it. He's often in his own world anyway (We call it Planet Ian, which is amusing to him--he even talks about having his own private start in the closet in his room). I like the "Why are you telling me this?" question. That would surely deflect the responsibility *back* to them--essentially saying "What are you trying to accomplish by pointing this out?"
Thanks,
dee
[QUOTE=MetisRebel]
I have no children. I'm old enough to be a granny though
I've had 4 different foster kids at different times [one ADHD teen] and enough nieces and nephews to completely replace Santa's work force. I spent some years working in social services with a few different populations, the last being active drug users most of whom, had mental health struggles aka "concurrent" disorders.
I AM the ADHD'er in my life
[/QUOTE]
LOL about the replacement elves. I admire you for taking on foster kids--don't know about Canada, but there is a great need here in the states for foster parents.
dee
[QUOTE=MetisRebel]
So you're getting the, "What kind of parent would let the kid act like {__________}" stuff?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. The worst of it started in summer 07 when we were (gasp) trying to have an adult conversation about choosing a new school--just simple chit chat about what we were looking at--not seeking advice, but just sort of trying to keep them informed, as grandparents might like to be. FIL then said that he found Ian to be rude, impulsive, and "out of control." He said he couldn't see taking him out or doing anything with him because he was so unmanageable--and that we as parents had just let him "get away with too much." He went on to list plenty of examples of how Ian interrupted, didn't mind on "first command," and so on. MiL just sort of nodded and agreed. So--I lost it and freaked out. It just was so unexpected. I mean, I really freaked--screaming. That isn't like me.
We tried to "patch things up" because really, that kind of hatred and conflict isn't healthy for anyone, even if *I* know they were wrong. And truth to tell, even though I was furious and angry, I should have been more controlled with my temper. Righteous anger and indignation, yes--shrieking, no. That fall (07) was when we finally got Ian the diagnosis and meds--and things really started looking up for him and us. We spent 2 nights there for christmas '07-pretty much Ian and I hiding down in the den with the tv just to stay out of everyone's way. That plus the one time he spent there this fall are the only visits we've had with them--purposefully.
Ye gads, I feel like I have really been running off at the keyboard! I guess I had a lot of this bottled up inside. I appreciate everyone listening.
Metis, how do you handle your adult ADHD? I read folks were talking about caffeine--is that a help?
I don't know if either DH or I have ADHD or if it runs in the family. We do drink tons of coffee, though.
Thanks,
dee
[QUOTE=graiae66]
.....I guess what I am looking for is this (besides venting--and thanks for letting me do that ): some positive coping strategies. What do the 'experts' say about the best ways to educate grandparents who may be clueless?
What tactics can parents use to explain ADHD to people who simply don't get it?
Are there ways to minimize the stress on everyone when the situation is such that parents/child have to be around people who lack empathy and understanding?
I did some Googling, and frankly, there's not much out there about working with grandparents.....
Thanks,dee [/QUOTE]
So Dee, see how we all here on this message board like to kick things around and not always zoom right to the crux of the question posed (as you did above)?! As in most of the important things in life, I guess we all need to mull it around a little in our heads--communal processing so to speak. And for some of us, some of the time, this here message board is the best place for it given the options....
I've done a lot of reading (bits and pieces here and there and everywhere) 'cause I wanted to find out the same thing, for myself. Searching for what can I say to someone who is uninformed, ill-informed, or mental health "bigoted" about ADHD that might make it quick and easy for me to explain it, w/o making excuses for myself. Well, I haven't found that expert advice, otherwise I'd gladly pass it along! It's sooo challenging to explain ADHD, so that they really get it (and are not just nodding their heads) that I don't go there unless the person expresses the interest in learning more. Frankly, in my experience, most people aren't interested in learning more--satisified with what they think they know...
Sooo, back to the G'parents.... ask your Doc who might have a good, short, compelling explaination for adhd you can use, or read, read, read to find an explaination that makes the most sense to you and your husband. Then, if this feels right to you and the right moment arises, ask the G'parents if they would like to discuss this. Don't just lay it (the explaination of the wherefores and whys of ADHD) on them, as that makes it too easy for them to brush it off as your "defense" for what they see as plain ol' bad behavior.
If the G'parents say yes, they are interested in learning more from you and your husband about ADHD, that is great! It should be a good exchange (hopefully they'll ask questions and test some of their hypotheses with you, not just listen, nod their heads, and not "open up". You probably shouldn't expect to convince them after this first "exchange"; rather, better you shoot for the outcome being that you get them to "open up" and look at, and think about adhd, in a new, broader way than they are used to. Hope and expect that you peke (sp?) their interest and want to talk to you some more about it. Of course, if the first discussion goes great and both G'parents have a big "Aha!" moment, all the better! If instead, they don't ask questions but slip in comments or statements that touch the wrong buttons in you, be prepared and try your darndest to keep your cool!
An idea for another way to "educate" them is to try to think of some joint activity your "little Hobbit" just loves to do that would be a good thing to do with one or both of these Grandparents. Something that will be enoyable to the grandparents as well. Accentuate the positive, in other words, and then, as you've been doing, limit exposure during those times and activities that might be annoying to the G'parents or stressful to you.
keep up the good work and thanks for sharing!! the exchange is always valuable...for all of us!!
[QUOTE=graiae66] [QUOTE=MetisRebel]
So you're getting the, "What kind of parent would let the kid act like {__________}" stuff?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. The worst of it started in summer 07 when we were (gasp) trying to have an adult conversation about choosing a new school--just simple chit chat about what we were looking at--not seeking advice, but just sort of trying to keep them informed, as grandparents might like to be. FIL then said that he found Ian to be rude, impulsive, and "out of control." He said he couldn't see taking him out or doing anything with him because he was so unmanageable--and that we as parents had just let him "get away with too much." He went on to list plenty of examples of how Ian interrupted, didn't mind on "first command," and so on. MiL just sort of nodded and agreed. So--I lost it and freaked out. It just was so unexpected. I mean, I really freaked--screaming. That isn't like me.
Have you considered that you were "gunny sacked" ?
Gunny sacking is when someone builds up a list of grievances a mile long, instead of dealing with each as it comes along. Then, they dump the entire gunny of complaints sack on you.
The usual response is exactly what you did--it feels like it "came out of nowhere" and is not about resolution because the complaints are too numerous--it's about dumping the sack. Then, the person who DID the gunny sacking can say, "Well geez. We knew she'd react like that. That's why we didn't say anything until now."--thus relieving their own complicity in the result.
Think about this. If grandpa was so concerned, why not deal with the child's behaviour immediately? Or bring it to your attention, immediatly? Why wait until it is longer than Santa's list?
Gunny sacking and scapegoating are common family dynamic dysfunctions.
We tried to "patch things up" because really, that kind of hatred and conflict isn't healthy for anyone, even if *I* know they were wrong. And truth to tell, even though I was furious and angry, I should have been more controlled with my temper. Righteous anger and indignation, yes--shrieking, no.
Oh bollocks. You're human. You were waylaid. You reacted. Normal human stuff. They freaked out--you freaked out. Sure, it isn't healthy but at the time you had no idea what you were dealing with. Not their dysfunction nor certainly what was going on for the hopping hobbit, either.
Now you know
Meaning--you can now strategize for a different outcome
That fall (07) was when we finally got Ian the diagnosis and meds--and things really started looking up for him and us. We spent 2 nights there for christmas '07-pretty much Ian and I hiding down in the den with the tv just to stay out of everyone's way. That plus the one time he spent there this fall are the only visits we've had with them--purposefully.
And how did those visits go?
Ye gads, I feel like I have really been running off at the keyboard! I guess I had a lot of this bottled up inside. I appreciate everyone listening.
Let 'er rip girlfriend. That's what we do here
Metis, how do you handle your adult ADHD? I read folks were talking about caffeine--is that a help?
I'm a caffeine junkie, sure. However, my meds aren't working worth a crap *sigh*
How do I handle it--whoa, long question.
I used to handle it better before there were secondary mental health problems.
I spent time building up certain mechanisms for overcompensation. Most folks didn't even SEE it. They just saw me as high energy, easily frustrated and sort of a gestalt genius with too little education. I hid a lot of the symptoms and let people believe I just had eccentric needs. I didn't medicate for most of my life.
The reason I love this forum is that if I get funny, lose the conversational thread or am generally whacky--it actually works in my favour because people get it.
There's a great deal of sadness here from parents who are upset and being blamed and ADHD'ers who are in chaos, watching all they attempt, exploding before their eyes.
There's also a great deal of joy when a kid gets an award, or marks go up, or they said something so truthful it takes everyone's breath away. Or a parent tries a new technique and the kid responds. Or an ADHD'er gets a promotion, or finishes a class or finds some creative new way to do the dishes.
I don't know if either DH or I have ADHD or if it runs in the family. We do drink tons of coffee, though.
Thanks,
dee
[/QUOTE]
If you're dealing with an ADHD'er in the family--they take so much focus and energy, it's not unusual to wonder where your nice organized life, went.
It is genetic just like dyslexia. Eccentric "Uncle Dave" who invents self-turning doorknobs, still plays on the swings with the kids, keeps changing jobs because he's bored and dreams bigger dreams might need an assessment
[QUOTE=graiae66]
Blind spot--more like that part of his skull is missing.
I do have to say DH and his mom are very close, and I wonder if at some point, he might approach her and say, "Look, I need you to understand Ian's ADHD and so on..." It might work.
Suggest it...maybe he should take them out for a quiet cuppa and bring this up.
The *irony* in all this is that I did not want kids all that much--partly yes, partly no. The *grandparents* were all over the kid thing. So you can see why I've got another level of frustration added in. Of course, I'm glad he's here now.
They wanted a grandkid if it was THEIR kind of grandkid right off Leave It to Beaver. Not the kind that actually shows up
Yep, that's exactly it! None of us want to "change" elderly parents, even if they have their faults...because it's not really fair, is it, to ask someone with 7+ decades to get rid of their habits because they may annoy us. Of course--I draw the line at things like health issues--dad can't skip his medications or checkups just because he'd rather not go.
[QUOTE=MetisRebel]
That's pretty profound about the fear aspect--fear of embaressment and "difference" from other kids. Yes, Ian can really blurt out some doozies. Like most children, he calls it like he sees it. Kids in general are tactless critters. I don't know exactly what he has said to them when I've not been around to monitor, but I do think he mentioned one time that he wished he could see them more often--and no response followed. Surely that had to be confusing.
Now there's the ADHD bit. He likes them. He can't keep their mistakes/dissatisfaction/whatever in his little ADHD head long enough to hate them.
He might just win them over yet
We had this old toaster that my Dad kept fixing. It either sucked the toast down and refused to release it until it turned to charcoal or shot it across the room and you needed a mitt to catch it. We swore at it all the time.
One day, my mother had her pastor over for tea. So, there was a room full of stiff-backed adults with their proper teacups and little pink wafers.
My 6 year-old nephew gets bored and hungry for real food so he wanders off to the kitchen where he whips out the Cheez whiz and a loaf of bread.
The kid pops in the toast and 2 minutes later, it whizzes over his head and lands in the soapy dishpan.
All we heard in the living room was [add correct words]" Jeebus Tapdancing Cripes! Trampa! Come in here and fix this bloody toaster again, willya?"
I cracked up. All the adults STARED at each other, aghast! My mom turned 50 shades of red and I whisked the little guy off to salvation before an adult killed him on the spot
Sometimes, ya just gotta wait awhile and the family embarrassment turns into the best stories
Hubby--probably because it's "tradition." Maybe not this year, but maybe next we can start *changing* that tradition and make a *new* tradition.
[/QUOTE]
I think he is generally okay with it. He's often in his own world anyway (We call it Planet Ian, which is amusing to him--he even talks about having his own private start in the closet in his room). I like the "Why are you telling me this?" question. That would surely deflect the responsibility *back* to them--essentially saying "What are you trying to accomplish by pointing this out?"
Thanks,
dee
[/QUOTE]
You're getting it
And if it gets too much--go join him on his planet. It's probably less polluted than this one, anyway
[QUOTE=John D]
An idea for another way to "educate" them is to try to think of some joint activity your "little Hobbit" just loves to do that would be a good thing to do with one or both of these Grandparents. Something that will be enoyable to the grandparents as well.
[/QUOTE]
Hey john, I LIKE that idea.
Hey Dee, here we go, I got it!! reading all this back and forth and good psychological stuff, what with trying this tack or that, plus learning about all you've tried already (which, by the way, all sounds excellent--you are one helluva good Mom by-the-way, a damn good wife, and his parents are lucky to have you as their daughter in law).... so it sounds to me like you've done everything right and now it's time to "fish or cut bait" (as they say here in Maine)... so here's the plan... get the three of them (grampie, grammie, and li'l Hobbit) to agree to go on a camping trip...just the three of them, for a week!! Wilderness camping--one tent, one coleman stove... well you get the idea! By the end of it they will either have learned to appreciate and love el Hobbit, or .... not want to see him again so you're dilemma is solved about holiday visits...there won't be any!!
John All I can say is:And Bring on the TENTS!
[QUOTE=John D]
So Dee, see how we all here on this message board like to kick things around and not always zoom right to the crux of the question posed (as you did above)?! As in most of the important things in life, I guess we all need to mull it around a little in our heads--communal processing so to speak. And for some of us, some of the time, this here message board is the best place for it given the options....
[/QUOTE]
Sure, that makes sense. And I'm new to the community as well, so you get to mull on me (and I on you guys), too.
I have several good friends who teach K-12, and one told me that some of the teachers who've been in the business a long time (and I suppose they fail to get anything like continuing ed!) have told her that "there is no such thing as ADHD, it's something doctors and pharmaceutical companies dreamed up so parents could use it as an excuse for being slackards and having bad kids." Can you believe that crap? If I've become sure of anything in this whole process, it's that ADHD (and ADD) is a well documented condition--any way you cut the data.
[QUOTE=John D]
Sooo, back to the G'parents.... ask your Doc who might have a good, short, compelling explaination for adhd you can use, or read, read, read to find an
[/QUOTE]
That's a good idea--I'm pretty sure I've seen handouts of some kind in the office. DS goes back in 2 weeks for a followup, so we can surely get something then.
Joint activity--also a good idea. I wonder what might fit the bill. A campout might be a lot to ask, but perhaps a day hike/picnic (there are lots of nice state parks around). Anyway, it's a place to start. I had not thought about something like this--maybe that was my own fear coming out.
I guess I had hoped the "educate them" approach would be successful since FIL is a retired biologist--I mean, surely he can understand that there is a TON of scientific data out there to support what we (as those who have kids with ADHD or have ADHD ourselves) already know. I suppose I was thinking--he could understand data where he might not "believe" me just telling him stuff--see what I mean?
[QUOTE=John D]keep up the good work and thanks for sharing!! the exchange is always valuable...for all of us!!
[/QUOTE]
Why, sure! I've already learned a lot being here less than 24 hours.
dee
Have you considered that you were "gunny sacked" ?
Never heard of gunny sacking, but it makes sense, and events unfolded pretty much exactly as you describe.
Oh bollocks. You're human. You were waylaid. You reacted. Normal human stuff. They freaked out--you freaked out. Sure, it isn't healthy but at the time you had no idea what you were dealing with. Not their dysfunction nor certainly what was going on for the hopping hobbit, either.
Now you know
Yep, now I know. Still, I have to say that I'm not pretty when being the screaming freakazoid. I also lashed out at Ian during the process because I was so distraught, saying things I deeply regretted and apologized for (and dangit, it was the day the last Harry Potter book came out, so it ruined the whole debut. Oh well).
And how did those visits go?
Satisfactorily because I staved off conflict. I did the ounce of prevention approach.
I plan to do the same at Christmas this year. One mitigating factor the inlaws do have is that they (mostly MIL) have been caregivers for hubby's 101 year old grandfather who passed away last month. He was in a nursing home, but the inlaws visited every day. That is very high stress. Doesn't excuse their coldness and misunderstanding of Ian, but it probably made them more edgy than usual. And now of course they are in the grieving process.
I spent time building up certain mechanisms for overcompensation. Most folks didn't even SEE it. They just saw me as high energy, easily frustrated and sort of a gestalt genius with too little education. I hid a lot of the symptoms and let people believe I just had eccentric needs. I didn't medicate for most of my life.
The reason I love this forum is that if I get funny, lose the conversational thread or am generally whacky--it actually works in my favour because people get it.
You do use humor very skillfully.
There's a great deal of sadness here from parents who are upset and being blamed and ADHD'ers who are in chaos, watching all they attempt, exploding before their eyes.
There's also a great deal of joy when a kid gets an award, or marks go up, or they said something so truthful it takes everyone's breath away. Or a parent tries a new technique and the kid responds. Or an ADHD'er gets a promotion, or finishes a class or finds some creative new way to do the dishes.
I think (anecdotally--this is me coming up with this, not something I've studied) that ADHD folks have to learn to think "laterally." They can't always solve a problem, for example, in the "head on" way but come at it from a different angle. I think it's an asset (well, THAT part of it--not so much the rest of it). Yet if you do a Google search, there is *very little* about ADHD + Giftedness. It wouldn't fill a notebook, what's out there.
And the blame game--what a crock. Why does society *always* tend to throw blame at parents? I know so many good, loving parents who have had kids just, well, take a wrong turn--make a mistake--and usually the family gets the blame. And for something like ADHD--totally inappropriate. As well all know!
dee
My 6 year-old nephew gets bored and hungry for real food so he wanders off to the kitchen where he whips out the Cheez whiz and a loaf of bread.
The kid pops in the toast and 2 minutes later, it whizzes over his head and lands in the soapy dishpan.
All we heard in the living room was [add correct words]" Jeebus Tapdancing Cripes! Trampa! Come in here and fix this bloody toaster again, willya?"
ROTFL!!! Oh, that's priceless. You should've got it on tape. I'm glad you rescued him from a certain death.
Yes--though there are lots of tornadoes and volcanoes, because that's the phase this week.
[QUOTE=John D]Hey Dee, here we go, I got it!! reading all this back and forth and good psychological stuff, what with trying this tack or that, plus learning about all you've tried already (which, by the way, all sounds excellent--you are one helluva good Mom by-the-way, a damn good wife, and his parents are lucky to [/QUOTE]
Well, thanks for the compliment. I will be honest--it was very, very, very hard for me the first several years. I was almost 35 when Ian was born. I had a career, I was used to sort of coming/going as I pleased (not that I did much other than go to the occasional movie), and suddenly to have a munchkin, that was challenging. The sleep deprivation has certainly been the hardest thing. I like my sleep--8 or 9 hours of it. Parents everywhere are laughing their heads off right now...And then for the ADHD thing to appear, I did have my "WHY ME??" moments aplenty. I will say that parenting got easier when a) he could talk, b) he could eat on his own, and c) he could read.
I have heard fish or cut bait, but had NO idea what it meant...now I know, and I can say I've 'met' someone from Maine! (You don't know Stephen King, do you?)
[QUOTE=graiae66]
Yes--though there are lots of tornadoes and volcanoes, because that's the phase this week.
[/QUOTE]
OOOOOO you can build one of those flour, salt volcanoes with a pump to erupt red/orange coloured corn syrup all over....
Hi again dee. I have sent you a website in a private message that is chock full of accurate information about ADHD and the treatment for it. There is an organization called CHADD (Children and Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder) which is the link I sent you and they are dedicated to the cause of educating the public , emotionally supporting communities and doing on going research about ADHD. The learning process with ADHD is an on going process and every day we learn something new. You might also want to purchase a book called "Driven to Distraction" written by Edward Hallowell who is a world renouned ADHD expert. You might want to give the book to your in laws for Christmas
".....Yet if you do a Google search, there is *very little* about ADHD + Giftedness. It wouldn't fill a notebook, what's out there...."
Ahhh!! So you know!!! I suspected as much... your brightness shines bright and true, right through the Internet connections and everything! And everyone knows that intelligence is as hereditary as height which is as heriditary as adhd! Those that are twice gifted, like L'le Hobbit, may not get all the help and understanding they need in school--but then, you're a teacher and you're learning fast on this adhd stuff and you and your husband will see that he gets what he needs. Which starts and never ends, of course, with your support and belief in him. He's 7 you say?? I bet seven going on 17 in some of the stuff going on in his head. Keep with him... your helping him sort things out as well as stoking his keen intrest to keep learning...ahh!! that's livin' When you can learn at your own speed and style, there's no such thing as ADHD!!
The bonus to ADHD and "giftedness" is the ability to overcompensate.The drawback is that people expect someone "gifted" or "bright" to have more strengths in some areas than [such as social maturity] an ADHD'er usually does.
Hollowell actually wrote about it, as well as creative subtypesin "Driven to Distraction".
Poor kid--I called him a hobbit and now he's stuck with it
[QUOTE=graiae66]
Yep, now I know. Still, I have to say that I'm not pretty when being the screaming freakazoid. I also lashed out at Ian during the process because I was so distraught, saying things I deeply regretted and apologized for (and dangit, it was the day the last Harry Potter book came out, so it ruined the whole debut. Oh well).
Okay, so you did everything you could. Live and learn
You do use humor very skillfully.
Thank you
I think (anecdotally--this is me coming up with this, not something I've studied) that ADHD folks have to learn to think "laterally." They can't always solve a problem, for example, in the "head on" way but come at it from a different angle.
This is true. I tend to think in patterns. It's the minutiae of concepts that I find tiresome.
My Dad was dyslexic and I can do math HIS way. They don't give you marks for just for the right answer, though.
The bonus and drawback for many ADHD people is that they can give you the conclusion but the trains move too fast in their heads to explain the process.
I think it's an asset (well, THAT part of it--not so much the rest of it). Yet if you do a Google search, there is *very little* about ADHD + Giftedness. It wouldn't fill a notebook, what's out there.
And the blame game--what a crock. Why does society *always* tend to throw blame at parents? I know so many good, loving parents who have had kids just, well, take a wrong turn--make a mistake--and usually the family gets the blame. And for something like ADHD--totally inappropriate. As well all know!
dee
[/QUOTE]
Parent have been a cheap shot ever since Freud. We seem to forget "It takes a village to raise a child".
What I see a great deal of, is parents making errors, not because they are cruel but because they are out of their league in dealing with a kid who doesn't respond to all the "normal" cues.
Then the frustration sets in and it's a downward spiral until they are weeping with guilt and exhaustion without the foggiest notion of what to do next.
Children that are diagnosed with ADHD and are also gifted are called "Twice Exceptional" and there is a lot of information on the subject if you search under "Twice Exceptional" Below is some information:
Twice ExceptionalGifted students with disabling conditions remain a major group of underserved and understimulated youth (Cline, 1999). The focus on accommodations for their disabilities may preclude the recognition and development of their cognitive abilities. It is not unexpected, then, to find a significant discrepancy between the measured academic potential of these students and their actual performance in the classroom (Whitmore & Maker, 1985). In order for these children to reach their potential, it is imperative that their intellectual strengths be recognized and nurtured, at the same time as their disability is accommodated appropriately.
Identification of giftedness in students who are disabled is problematic. The customary identification methods-standardized tests and observational checklists-are inadequate, without major modification. Standard lists of characteristics of gifted students may be inadequate for unmasking hidden potential in children who have disabilities. Children whose hearing is impaired, for example, cannot respond to oral directions, and they may also lack the vocabulary which reflects the complexity of their thoughts. Children whose speech or language is impaired cannot respond to tests requiring verbal responses. Children whose vision is impaired may be unable to respond to certain performance measures, and although their vocabulary may be quite advanced, they may not understand the full meaning of the words they use (e.g., color words). Children with learning disabilities may use high-level vocabulary in speaking but be unable to express themselves in writing, or vice versa. In addition, limited life experiences due to impaired mobility may artificially lower scores (Whitmore & Maker, 1985). Since the population of gifted/disabled students is difficult to locate, they seldom are included in standardized test norming groups, adding to the problems of comparison.
In addition, gifted children with disabilities often use their intelligence to try to circumvent the disability. This may cause both exceptionalities to appear less extreme: the disability may appear less severe because the child is using the intellect to cope, while the efforts expended in that area may hinder other expressions of giftedness.
Gifted Children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)Maureen Neihart
October 2003
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is the most common behavioral disorder of childhood and is marked by a constellation of symptoms including immature levels of impulsivity, inattention, and hyperactivity (American Psychiatric Association, 1994). The National Institutes of Health declared ADHD a "severe public health problem" in its consensus conference on ADHD in 1998. In the ongoing dialogue about ADHD in gifted children, three questions often arise. Are gifted children over-diagnosed with the disorder? In what ways are gifted ADHD children different from gifted children without the disorder and from other ADHD children? Does the emerging research suggest any differences in intervention or support?
There are three subtypes of ADHD: predominantly inattentive type, predominantly hyperactive/impulsive type, and combined type. The combined type is most common and best researched. The DSM-IV states that to meet criteria for a diagnosis of Combined Type ADHD, a child must meet at least six of the nine criteria from both lists and exhibit significant impairment in functioning. Symptoms must occur in more than one setting, have been present for at least six months, and have been present before the age of seven. It is important to note that a child who meets the criteria but doesn't exhibit significant impairment is not diagnosed with the disorder. The subjective determination of what constitutes significant impairment is one of several factors that contribute to the controversy regarding diagnosis and treatment, especially in gifted children.
Differences in Gifted Children and Non-Gifted Children with ADHD
Initial findings suggest two points for consideration (Kalbfleisch, 2000; Kaufmann, Kalbfleisch, & Castellanos, 2000; Moon, 2001; Moon, Zentall, Grskovic, Hall, & Stormant, 2001; Zentall, Moon, Hall, & Grskovic, 2001). First, Kaufman and her colleagues' (2000) work indicates that identified gifted ADHD children are more impaired than other ADHD children, suggesting the possibility that we are missing gifted children with milder forms of ADHD. Second, high ability can mask ADHD, and attention deficits and impulsivity tend to depress the test scores as well as the high academic performance that many schools rely on to identify giftedness. Also, teachers may tend to focus on the disruptive behaviors of gifted ADHD students and fail to see indicators of high ability.
These delays are of concern because early provision of appropriate services is important for academic and social success. Gifted children whose attention deficits are identified later may be at risk for developing learned helplessness and chronic underachievement (Moon, 2001). ADHD children whose giftedness goes unrecognized do not receive appropriate educational services. It is recommended that children who fail to meet test score criteria for giftedness and are later diagnosed with ADHD be retested for the gifted program (Baum, Olenchak, & Owen, 1998; Moon, 2002).
As a group, ADHD children tend to lag two to three years behind their age peers in social and emotional maturity (Barkley, 1998). Gifted ADHD children are no exception (Kaufmann & Castellanos, 2000; Moon, 2001; Zentall, Moon, Hall, & Grskovic, 2001). This finding has important implications for educational placement. As a group, gifted children without ADHD tend to be more similar in their cognitive, social, and emotional development to children two to four years older than children their own age (Neihart, Reis, Robinson, & Moon, 2002). When placed with other high ability children without the disorder, ADHD children may find the advanced maturity of their classmates a challenge they are ill prepared for. Also, gifted children without the disorder may have little patience for the social and emotional immaturity of the gifted ADHD student in their midst. This is not to say that gifted ADHD students should not be placed with other gifted students. The research is clear that lack of intellectual challenge and little access to others with similar interests, ability, and drive are often risk factors for gifted children (Neihart, Reis, Robinson, & Moon, 2002), contributing to social or emotional problems.
Assessing ADHD in Gifted Children
It is difficult to differentiate true attention deficits from the range of temperament and behavior common to gifted children. There is concern in the literature that clinicians err on the side of pathologizing normal gifted behavior (Baum, Olenchak, & Owen, 1998; Baum, Owen & Dixon, 1991; Cramond, 1995; Leroux & Levitt-Perlman, 2000; Webb, 2001). Common characteristics of gifted children can be misconstrued as indicators of pathology when the observer is unfamiliar with the differences in the development of gifted children. This difficulty can be exacerbated when the gifted child in question spends considerable time in a classroom where appropriate educational services are not provided. The intensity, drive, perfectionism, curiosity, and impatience commonly seen in gifted children may, in some instances, be mistaken for indicators of ADHD (Baum, Olenchak, & Owen, 1998; Webb, 2001). The creatively gifted child may appear to be oppositional, hyperactive, and argumentative (Cramond, 1995). Gifted children with some kinds of undiagnosed learning disabilities will be very disorganized, messy, and have difficult social relations (Baum & Owen, & Dixon, 1991; Olenchak & Reis, 2002).
Ideally, a diagnosis of ADHD in gifted children should be made by a multidisciplinary team that includes at least one clinician trained in differentiating childhood psychopathologies and one professional who understands the normal range of developmental characteristics of gifted children. Since as many as two thirds of children with ADHD have coexisting conditions such as learning disabilities or depression, assessment must include an evaluation for these disorders as well (American Academy of Pediatrics, 2000). School personnel rarely have the training needed to differentially diagnose ADHD, and few clinicians are aware of the unique developmental characteristics of gifted children. Accurate assessment must be a team effort.
One of the reasons parents may be hesitant to comply with treatment recommendations for their children is because they aren't convinced their child has the disorder. Parents want a thorough evaluation, and parents of gifted children want assurance that their child's giftedness has been taken into consideration when evaluations are conducted. When parents see that their child has been properly evaluated, they may be more willing to participate in a treatment plan.
What is Appropriate Intervention and Support?
The available research suggests that we should not assume that all interventions recommended for ADHD children are appropriate for gifted children who have the disorder. Early findings suggest that there may be some differences in the way we intervene with gifted ADHD children. Treatment matching is crucial. Effective interventions are always those that are tailored to the unique strengths and needs of the individual. There is wide agreement in the literature on gifted children with learning problems that as a general strategy, intervention should focus on developing the talent while attending to the disability. Keeping the focus on talent development, rather than on remediation of deficits, appears to yield more positive outcomes and to minimize problems of social and emotional adjustment (Baum, Owen & Dixon, 1991; Olenchak, 1994; Olenchak & Reis, 2002; Reis, McGuire, & Neu, 2000).
In addition, there is limited evidence that some of the commonly recommended interventions for ADHD children may make problems worse for ADHD children who are also gifted (Moon, 2002). For instance, since gifted children tend to prefer complexity, shortening work time and simplifying tasks may increase frustration for some gifted ADHD students who would handle better more difficult and intriguing tasks. Similarly, decreasing stimulation may be counterproductive with some gifted ADHD children who, as a group, tend to be intense and work better with a high level of stimulation.
Conclusion
There has been some concern that problems with inattention or hyperactivity that are better attributed to a mismatch with the curriculum (Baum, Olenchak, & Owen, 1998; Webb, 2001) or to characteristics of high creative ability (Cramond, 1995) are wrongly attributed to ADHD. Although there are good reasons to believe that misidentifications occur, there are yet no hard data on the frequency with which gifted children are over- (or under-) diagnosed or over- (or under-) medicated. Until systematic studies are conducted, we should be cautious about rejecting ADHD diagnosis in gifted children out of hand because there are serious, long-term negative consequences for undertreating the disorder (Barkley, 1998). The available research on ADHD children indicates that nationally, there is a good deal of undertreatment as well as some overtreatment of ADHD children.
It is a challenge to arrange a good fit in school for gifted ADHD children. They must have an appropriate level of intellectual challenge with supports and interventions to address their social and emotional immaturity. Placement in the gifted program may or may not be appropriate, depending on the nature of the program, the social milieu of the gifted classroom, and the coping ability of the child, but a coherent plan for addressing the student's intellectual, social, and behavioral needs is nevertheless imperative.
References
American Academy of Pediatrics (2000). Clinical practice guidelines: diagnosis and evaluation of the child with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. Pediatrics, 105:1158-1170.
Thanks, that was a great article! I'd never heard of the 'twice exceptional' title, so that will give me something to go with. :)DeeThanks for the article Luvmykids02
Wow I feel special now --being "twice exceptional" and all.
Am I still allowed to talk to you regular people?
graiae66:
Have fun with that with the grandparents. Maybe they'll treat him like a miniature Einstein now
MetisRebel wrote:
Am I still allowed to talk to you regular people?
We feel privileged because you talk to us commoners
MetisRebel wrote:
Am I still allowed to talk to you regular people?
We feel privileged because you talk to us commoners
Well thank you for letting me back in....
