Sleeplessness | ADHD Information

Reading is a great idea.  For me however, the book has to be really interesting in order for me to even pick it up and then I have trouble putting it down.  I can't read in bed because I like to relax in bed and I'd have to hold my arms up and I have to wear glasses to read.  So, reading is a dilemma.  But hey, if it works for you, then go for it!

Sometimes I'll do sudoku.
Try asking your doc for a prescription of Trazodone.  Actually being able to sleep for a long, solid block of time is utterly amazing...I never imagined it was even possible before.  I have to take a pretty strong dose, however. To the OP:

You know, a few questions came up in my mind as I read
your post. Are your sleeping problems episodic? Are
you fine a lot of the time, but then they just pop up
for a few days? Are you tired the next morning, or are
you ready to go? If you're not tired, and it's
episodic- you may be looking at hypomania- specifically
bipolar disorder.

Now, back to ADD. Let's be honest- we don't sleep well.
None of us really. I personally can relate on a lot of
levels. Though, what I've learned is that it's not so
much that I can't sleep- it's that I can't sleep when
I'm supposed to. For me, my body is just stuck at 4AM-
Noon as sleep time. I always seem to get a second wind,
no matter how tired I was, around 10 or 11pm. From
there- it's not just that I can't sleep (though I really
wouldn't be able to_, *I don't want to*. To me, this is
the biggest problem. Like everyone else, my brain just
won't shut off. And I'm so desperate for stimulation
that the idea of just lying down in the dark with
nothing to do sounds horrifying. I'll do until sheer
exhaustion takes me down. There's also something very
addictive about the late hours for me (and I'm sure most
people reading this). They're calm and serene. They're
most my focused hours of the day, and I hate to waste
that feeling.

Now, solutions. Me? I got a night job. So I can stay
up until 4 AM and wake up at noon, and there's no
problem. But that doesn't work for everyone, obviously.
Here's what I did when I had a morning job:

1. My doc and I set up my medication schedule so that I
would take a second adderall XR in the afternoon after
the first wore off. (anyone else HATE timing meds?
Ugh, drives me crazy) It would last a few hours after I
had to be in bed. I found that when I was medicated, I
was more able to shut my brain off and to make myself
lie there and sleep.

2. I also had an extra prescription for 5mg tabs of
adderall. Sometimes, for a variety of reasons, I just
wouldn't take that second adderall XR (often forgot,
honestly). But I found that if I took a 5mg tab before
sleeping, it'd knock me out. Quiets the chaos long
enough to fall asleep. Always did sleep like a baby on
stimulants.

3. Get a sleep med prescription. Clonodine is a great
medication. It's a sedative that happens to have
efficacy against ADHD symptoms. This means it'll help
you get to sleep and stay asleep. (Because even when we
can fall asleep- we tend to have very restless sleep)

4. Exercise. I had a gym nearby that I joined. It was
open late at night (24 hours actually). So after work,
I could run to the gym and work out for a bit, and then
I'd come home and crash. And I slept really well. You
don't even need a gym. You could just get some
resistance straps or something for home and go through a
workout. Make it an exhausting one or just a light one.

Hope that helps!

I looked at the date of my original post and was suprised to find that it's a year old!

So here is an update...

I am still self-medicating  with alcohol, and benedryl although I've kind of moved away from the melatonin.   What I'm using instead is 5-HTP, which I found is a metabolite of L-Tryptophan (think Thanksgiving turkey ).  I did some internet research and found that the body breaks L-Tryptophan down into hydoxytryptophan which ends up turning into the "onins" - serotonin, melatonin, etc.  In taking just the melatonin I found I would get used to it and it wouldn't be as effective after a while. I don't seem to be experiencing the same thing with the 5-HTP.  Combining with a half benedryl and alcohol, well, I sleep pretty doggone well.   I've tried it without the alcohol & I'll appear to be asleep (my husband says I'm snoring - which is a boldfaced lie!), but I am aware that my brain is pinging around the room.

But, I know the alcohol part isn't healthy.  I try and try to do without it but it's just not the same.

(Let me just add at this point that I am 46, female and like most women "of a certain age" I have some hormonal issues going on.) 

So I did some more internet research and I think that at the root of the problem is the hormonal thing.  It's awfully hard to sleep when you throwing the covers on and off all night because of the hot flashes.  Add to that other perimenopausal symptoms like, depression (comes and goes), emotional swings, weight gain (happened in the past year), sluggishness, confusion, top all that off with a healthy serving of ADD.  It would be a miracle if I were able to sleep at all!  

I still have a goal of dropping the alcohol.  Not healthy and probably adds to the occasional depression.

I have an appointment with my family doc for a full checkup. Blood workup, etc.  two days after that, I've got a meds check with the psych.  I'm going to come clean about the alcohol.  And see if he thinks that a small dose of an antidepressant for a little while to get me over this hormonal hump might help.  Have any of ya'll done that before?   He has prescribed trazadone before but I hated it. If I woke up in the middle of the night I felt drunk (and I hadn't drank that night) and hungover the next day. Hated it. 

Anyway, thought I would let you know. Maybe we help one another figure it out.

 

 

 

 

 

So I know you said you were trying to detox yourself, but in the list of things you tried to knock yourself out with via self-medication, i didn't actually see any prescription medications. If you can find a way to get to sleep without prescriptions meds or any meds for that matter, then go for it. But I myself have been through many times where if i didn't have my lunesta, or whatever other med i may have been using at the time (Lunesta definitely works best for me, though) I don't know what i would have done. Have you tried asking your doc about getting something for sleep. Taking a lunesta or Rozerem would probably be alot better than drinking or taking benadryl. Although if melatonin is doing it for you, then that's pretty healthy. As long as you take them as prescribed, there is no real dangers you should have to worry about to your body/brain, and they are ceratinly no worse for you than adderal.
Good luck.

This topic of sleep has always obsessed me, way before I found out I had ADD a couple of years ago.  My father never slept more than 2 hours a night, but never complained of being tired.  Now I know he's probably the one that passed on this gift I have now.  I usually can't slow down the old mind for at least two hours after I go to bed, but what I hate is not sleeping all night, as everyone does.  I meditate, read, etc., but the only thing that works is Trazadone every other night, and Ambien the other nights.  So call me a drug addict, but at least I feel rested most of the time, even after only 5 hours sleep.

Sweet Dreams,

Mig58

Although, yes, it would be healthier to give up alcohol altogether, if you are just having a glass of wine at night before bed or something like that, that's actually not too bad. Of course it none of my business what you drink and how much, ha ha, but I'm just saying it may not be enough to bat your self up over too much. 5-HT is good. I've taken it on and off. It helps with sleep, and may very well help with your depression. Good luck ;)Hi ADDandproud and BriefCameron,

Just chiming in again 'cause I'm jealous.

I really do like a glass of wine with dinner but in my advanced age (read hormones) I find even one little glass of red wine disturbs my sleep. sigh. I wish it would help me sleep instead!

I have been doing a bit better since upping my light therapy from 30 minutes to 90 minutes/day. Can't wait for spring!

g'nite. Sweet dreams.

The continuing sleep saga:

So I started an exercise class this past Tuesday and boy did I overdue it! I was wobbly walking out of the class, sore the next day, and incapable of anything resembling normal movement the next.  HOWEVER... the night of the class I did not drink anything, slept pretty good considering... next night, we went out to dinner and had beers (note the plural),  next night (the one where I was soooo sore), no alcohol and was lights out before my husband (this is new). 

What this has shown me is that mental and physical exercise is very critical to how well I sleep.  Apparently burning off the extra nervous energy that I generate but don't demonstrate is important.  Without it it's like my mind is a caged animal, pacing and pacing.

any thoughts or similar experiences?

 

 

 

Hi Again,

Re: exercise. Totally agree with you. When I was younger it was imperative that I had hard aerobic exercise 3-4x week (bike, run, x-c ski) or I did not sleep and just felt crummy - sluggish and craving all the wrong foods.

I would have to explain to my bosses, if they wanted too much over-time from me and infringed upon exercise time, that if I did not get my exercise they would not have the energetic, happy, clear thinking person they hired, but a bad tempered slug. Most learned I meant it after awhile and then encouraged me to get out the door on time to exercise.

Now I still find sleep is much better if I manage to get outside and do something vigourous for 30 to 60 min. Raking leaves is doing the job this month. When I slack off getting out, which I do, I sleep badly etc.

It's funny all all the research reported in the journals and communities emphasize how important regular exercise is,... especially for those of us who are super-enabled with ADD, for sleep and optimal mental functioning.  But, how many of us ignore it?  <raising her hand>

It's almost as if having a good nights sleep (loaded with lots of good dreams) is like an Adderall and a pot of coffee.

 

Hi, I am surely late to this discussion but have really been wondering about sleep myself lately to did a topic search.

Thanks for the reminder to get some exercise. So easy to slack off when it gets cold and I know it helps.

I have SAD (seasonal affective disorder) on top of generally restless sleep and it's been tough lately. I've used light therapy for years and love my Litebook. So I went to their site a few weeks ago and read some really interesting stuff on light sources and sleep.

hmm. I'm new and trying to be careful not to break rules about links? but if you just google Litebook you'll find them.

Anyway, they now sell special glasses that look like sunglasses but quite copper colored. The comment about TV before bed made me think of them, as they suggest the bright, bluish light from a TV or computer puts your sleep cycle out of whack. So they suggest wearing these glasses to watch TV or Computer in evening so your brain is not 'morning awake' just before bed. I have not bought them yet, but think I might. I did try my regular sunglasses but they are too dark.

Related, they suggested changing the clock radio from any other color to red and changing your nitelight to red. I did both (picked up a red LED for the nitelight) and I've really noticed a difference. My old  clock radio was that bright greenish color and it really was awful for sleep. The red is very soothing. Who would've guessed?




Thanks for the information.  My daughter has been suffering from terrible sleep issues since a concussion 7 weeks ago.  Nothing we have tried so far as really worked.

Hello HorseMom,

Gosh, I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's concussion.

They can take a long time to get over and don't usually seem to be taken seriously enough. It can be very confusing in those first  few weeks after when you start to wonder what is wrong with you because things are definitely NOT normal. I had a very bad concussion a few years back and it was a sobering experience. I'm fine now :)

I hope time heals her soon. She is lucky she has you looking out for every little thing you can do to help. Be patient.

I was up ALL night long even though I was tired. My mind was pinging around the room.

I'm on Adderall XR 40mg. (although most times I only take 20).  I know that Adderall can cause sleeplessness but even when I'm taking a break from the meds, I still have the problem.

So I've found myself for the past couple of years self-medicating just so that I can get a decent nights sleep.  Alcohol (beer and wine), benedryl, and melatonin.   Yeah, I know, not good.

My sleeplessness is a big ball of interwoven problems: ADD, lack of physical activity, stress, meds, worrying that I'm not going to sleep.

So I'm starrting off the new year trying to "detox" myself.  I'm not looking forward to it. But I can't keep self-medicating like this.  I don't even know if I can fall asleep on my own.  Surely at some point I will.

What have you done to address sleep problems?  I've had people tell me that ADD people should absolutely NOT watch tv before bed as it's too mentally stimulating.  I sure would appreciate some advice.

One thing I could never figure out was those people who can fall asleep at the drop of their head.  They'd be like, "I just think about nothing."  I couldn't figure out how on earth they do that.  My mind never shuts up.  I have very active dreams (no wonder I'm always tired - I don't actually sleep)

I have early morning insomnia.  Usually I go to sleep early enough and fall asleep quickly enough but then I wake up at like 330 or 4 and then I'm up.  Can't get back to sleep.  Unless it's a non-work day and then I'll lay in bed and sometimes go back to sleep.  But none of it is restful. 

I almost always watch TV in bed.  I'll set the timer for 20 minutes and if I haven't fallen asleep, i'll turn it off before the timer goes.  I'm real good at sleeping through half of jeopardy in the evenings though!  Watch the news.  That's boring enough.  Or public tv or some other show you don't like.

I'd be interested to hear what other people do.  I also sometimes sleep with ear plugs because I wake up at all sorts of sounds.  Cars, people, animals, weather. 

I know this wasn't much help to you but just an acknowledgement to let you know you aren't alone!

Good luck with the "detox".  You can do it!

Christmas early morning I didn't sleep either. I got up for the 6 a.m. Santa call, politely sat through the opening of the presents (husband and I didn't exchange), drank coffee, took pictures, made breakfast and went back to bed.  To the casual observer, I looked dead to the world. But I heard every conversation, my son coming in asking for batteries, was even able to answer coherently to 'go look on my desk or in the 2nd drawer on the left'. 

And that went on until 11 a.m.

My husband (bless his heart!) said I "just need to get over my fear of missing a few hours of sleep". Yeah, like I said, albeit sarcastically, "bless his heart".  He's one of those people who can fall asleep at the drop of a hat. But he will wake up and worry (serves him right).  If I am able to get into deep REM sleep, it's hard to wake me.   What he doesn't understand, is that getting decent sleep determines whether or not I get anything accomplished the next day.   And as any ADDer understands is hard enough on it's own.  

I'm going to try a more calming activity, like reading.