ADHD & Math LD ?? | ADHD Information
inspiredbymusic wrote: Also wanted to say thanks to luvmykids for the information on Executive Function. Very interesting and helpful.
Your welcome inspiredbymusic This is a problem with executive function. Those with ADHD do learn differently and while its good to know if the child is right or left brained, it's critical for the poster to first and foremost find out if the math problems are due to ADHD or a separate LD in math. The writing problems for many ADHD'ers and those with an LD can be due to Dysgraphia. I also agree with you about the homework. It needs to be modified because these children are exhausted just trying to copy the problems and yes this could be part of the IEP or 504 plan. Trying to transfer thoughts to paper is very difficult for these children. The mental energy it takes for them to get the thought down on paper is overwhelming at times.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and what works for your dd as your input and strategies are very helpful. The problems can get very complexed so that's why I always suggest that the parent get a definitive diagnosis first because different problems require different strategies.
happy2bemom, your so right about the geometry. My son struggled with basic math but was a wiz at geometry
cosake......please let us know how everything is going and thank you everyone for being so supportive
Thank you, everyone.
I am all wound up and a bundle of nerves - the meeting is in 2 hours. I am pretty sure that I am going to cry at the meeting, and I am afraid it will be taken the wrong way. I am tearing up just thinking about talking about my son's difficulties. I am hoping my husband can get out of work in time to join me so that I have some support. I think a "united" front will be good for the school to see as well.
I will post later and let you all know how it went . . .
Thank you -- for being here and taking the time to respond.
cosake
cosake, I remember those feelings. I also cried, feeling so bad for my poor sweet, little boy. I felt alone amongst his "TEAM" fighting for what they should be just offering and doing.
Please let this hug give you strenghth and comfort
My husband always went. He too cried at one meeting. I need his strength there.
They do get easier as the kids get older, but I remember them as if they were yesterday!!
We are here for you when you return. If you can gain strength by knowing we are there in spirit, please bring it with you!! 
Thank you sooooo much for your support. It helps knowing that I can come back to you all for a shoulder to cry on, a place to vent, or celebrate, or gather more knowledge.
It is greatly appreciated ! 
see SO many ADD/ADHD kids struggle with math. Math often
requires so many sequential steps, and ADD kids don't think that
way. I have found that often my ADD students that have struggled
all year, will excel at geometry. I wouldn't be surprised if your son
is much better at geometry than other areas of math. The visuals
that go along with teaching geometry, and manipulatives give more
meaning to the process. With some kids with ADD, I find repeat,
repeat, repeat the process (in exactly the same way) until it begins to
become automatic. Unfortunately, that can take longer than it does
with a non-ADD student.
I hope this helps.Cosake,
Let us know how the meeting went--I hope it went well.
Cosake,
You might want to check into information on "right-brained" or visual-spatial learners. Corrina posted a thread about this recently. There is a book called Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World. The theory is that many kids who have ADHD are also "right-brained" and have different ways of thinking and learning that may be at odds with how math is taught in 7th grade. If you google "visual-spatial" you can find some information and see if you think your son is "right-brained," and there are tips and techniques that can work for these kids. Just a thought.
My daughter also had a ton of trouble memorizing math facts although she can memorize spelling words easily.
My daughter also ran into trouble when she had to copy down problems. It takes her forever, her hand-writing isn't good, and all it takes is one mistake to ruin the whole math problem. I'm thinking that your son shouldn't have to copy down problems. They should be provided to him and this could be part of an IEP or 504 plan. If at home, can you write them down for him? Turning lined paper sideways can also help by keeping the numbers in the right columns.
It's not right for your son to be spending that amount of time on math homework. We had a problem with this last year too. This year something seems to have clicked for my daughter, plus the teacher assigns a more reasonable amount of homework in the first place.
I hope your meeting goes well on Friday and that you are able to get some answers and help ASAP. Don't give up until you do!
Best of luck and let us know what happens!
Also wanted to say thanks to luvmykids for the information on Executive Function. Very interesting and helpful.
inspiredbymusic39905.238599537
Thank you -- I will look this up and see if it matches up with what we're seeing in him.
Thank you !
Thank you, I was not aware of the School forum. I will check around in there and see if I find anything related.
I supposed that is really where I should have posted this in the first place.
Thanks!
Welcome cosake :) You posted in the correct forum because this is a problem with executive functioning which affects not only academics but every area of life.
Have your son tested by a clinician who has the qualifications to make a differential diagnosis because this is a real tricky one which deals with executive functions. Problems with ADHD children and math are not uncommon because there is a lot of memorization and problem solving. Because these children tend to have short term memory problems, the information doesn't stay in short term memory long enough to transfer into long term memory, Math equations are long and complicated at times so this definitely creates a problem for the ADHD child. An astute clinician can differentiate between the problems being due to ADHD or a separate LD in math. My advice to you is to go outside the shcool and have your son tested. I don't know that school personnel is qualified to make such distinctions. Good luck and plese keep us posted.
Below is more informationa bout aDHD and executive functions:
Parents and teachers are often baffled when students with attention deficits, including those who are intellectually gifted, teeter on the brink of school failure. Recently researchers may have solved part of this challenging puzzle; deficits in critical cognitive skills, known as executive function, may interfere with a student's ability to succeed in school. Practically speaking, executive function deficits may cause problems for students with ADD or ADHD in several important areas: getting started and finishing work, remembering homework, memorizing facts, writing essays or reports, working math problems, being on time, controlling emotions, completing long-term projects, and planning for the future.
Although scientists have not yet agreed on the exact elements of executive function, two leading researchers on Attention Deficit Disorder, Dr. Russell Barkley and Dr. Tom Brown, have given us insightful working descriptions. Dr. Barkley describes executive function as those "actions we perform to ourselves and direct at ourselves so as to accomplish self-control, goal-directed behavior, and the maximization of future outcomes." Through use of a metaphor, Dr. Brown gives us a helpful visual image by comparing executive function to the conductor's role in an orchestra. The conductor organizes various instruments to begin playing singularly or in combination, integrates the music by bringing in and fading certain actions, and controls the pace and intensity of the music.
Although the impact of executive function deficits on school success is profound, this fact is often unrecognized by many parents and teachers. I learned the hard way with my own son that a high IQ score alone is not enough to make good grades. Early in my son's academic career, I knew something was interfering with his ability to do well in school. But it wasn't until Dr. Barkley identified the central role executive function plays in school success, that I finally understood why school was so difficult for him.
Components of Executive Function
Based upon material from Barkley and Brown, I have outlined five general components of executive function that impact school performance:
Working memory and recall (holding facts in mind while manipulating information; accessing facts stored in long-term memory.)Activation, arousal, and effort (getting started; paying attention; finishing work)
Controlling emotions (ability to tolerate frustration; thinking before acting or speaking)
Internalizing language (using "self-talk" to control one's behavior and direct future actions)
Taking an issue apart, analyzing the pieces, reconstituting and organizing it into new ideas (complex problem solving).
Let's take a more in-depth look at just one element of executive function-deficits in working memory and recall-and their impact on school work.
Poor Working Memory and Recall
a. limited working memory capacity
b. weak short-term memory (holding information in mind for roughly twenty seconds;capacity-roughly the equivalent of seven numbers)
c. forgetfulness-can't keep several things in mind
As a result, students:
- have difficulty remembering and following instructions.
- have difficulty memorizing math facts, spelling words, and dates.
- have difficulty performing mental computation such as math in one's head.
- forget one part of a problem while working on another segment.
- have difficulty paraphrasing or summarizing.
Affects their sense of past events:
a. difficulty recalling the past
As a result, students:
- do not learn easily from past behavior (limited hindsight).
- repeat misbehavior.
Affects their sense of time:
a. difficulty holding events in mind
b. difficulty using their sense of time to prepare for upcoming events and the future
As a result, students:
- have difficulty judging the passage of time accurately.
- do not accurately estimate how much time it will take to finish a task; consequently, they may not allow enough time to complete work.
Affects their sense of self-awareness:
a. diminished sense of self-awareness
As a result, students:
- do not easily examine or change their own behavior. Affects their sense of the future:
a. students live in the present-focus on the here and now
b. less likely to talk about time or plan for the future
As a result, students:
- have difficulty projecting lessons learned in the past, forward into the future (limited foresight).
- have difficulty preparing for the future. Luvmykids0239903.6321875Hi everyone,
Does anyone else here have a student with ADHD and a math learning disability ? I've recently been exploring the link between the two, because it appears that my 7th grade son has suddenly hit a road block with math. He works very hard at everything to keep up his good grades, and math is his favorite subject. He gets A's in all subjects except math (Pre-Algebra). He enjoys school.
The issue/s are: he understands the concepts and processes, but can't accurately complete a problem. He makes errors copying down problems, can't remember simple multiplication tables, carries numbers wrong when doing long division, etc. I've read up and it looks like a mild form of dyscalculia.
He loves math and I don't want him to start hating it -- he is currently getting a D average in Pre Algebra. Until this year, he has done well in math. We spend 2 to 3 hours some nights just working on math. It doesn't leave much time for other homework, projects or after school activities.
I have a meeting with the Special Ed. coordinator on Friday to see about having him tested for a math disability and would be interested in any helpful tips or info that anyone can provide.
For additional background info, my son is ADHD combined types - impulsive and inattentive, is in the Gifted program at the middle school, and is being evaluated by a neurologist in a few weeks for possible Tourette's.
Thank you,
cosake
My son LOVES math. He has stuggled until I have shown him how on certain math forms and then goes back to excelling.
You are NOT the first to post about adhd and difficulty in math. There could be a relationship between the two.
someone should post, maybe under the adhd/school heading as well!!