This is a great thread. My son is ADHD, and in the gifted program at school and was just diagnosed with Tourette's. (Gifted program determined by scores on state tests and does not require IQ or IEP). The school, because of his good grades and high test scores and gifted program do not want to do a 504. They said wait until you get the Tourette's diagnosis and then we'll talk again. He is already getting some accommodations but they are not in writing. His ADHD is the major problem, not the Tourette's at this point. I am so frustrated. We see a psychologist tomorrow to help us determine what direction to go in with the school. My son is also just turning 13, so I think they feel if he needed a 504 he would have had one by now. Unfortunately he's never needed one until now -- I should have gotten one earlier just to have one, I guess. 4-5 hours of homework that we do every night is miserable and unnecessary !
Good luck !
oh wow, 4 -5 hours of home work, i cannot imagine. Is it normal for a child to not get a tourette diagnosis until 13? My son has a tick, but they said it was common and not tourette's. Did your son have any other symptoms up until now?I thought I'd start a new thread, but seeing this is "your" thread, I'll just respond here.
From the research that I've done on the web, it is common for a diagnosis to come late because 1) parents, teachers and doctors don't see the pattern of tics, or don't realize that some of the behaviors they are seeing are tics, 2) The motor tics may have been around for awhile, but the vocal ones don't start until later. Others still are in denial, and I just read yesterday that some parents do not want a Tourette's diagnosis in their child's medical records until it is absolutely necessary because it can prevent some companies from providing health or life insurance coverage. I couldn't believe that one ! My son needed the diagnosis so that we can go back to school to get some help.
I asked our ped. years ago if my son may have Tourette's, and he said probably not, lots of kids tic. Wait until he's 10 or 12 and they should go away by then. Well, they didn't go away, and he started with the vocal tics. I called and got a referral for a neurologist when the vocal tics started.
It breaks my heart that if he made the same sounds at school that he makes at home, they would never allow him in a mainstream classroom -- he'd be too disruptive. The neuro was impressed that he is able to hold the vocal tics in at school and only do them at home, which of course adds to his inattentiveness at school because his brain is working to NOT make the vocal tics.
I think everyone is different, and this just happens to be what happened with my son.
If you check some of the internet lists of Tourette's tics, you may find additional tics that you say "Aha !" he does that too, or you may look and say, this is the only one he has. My son's changed every few months from the time he was about 3 or 4. One of the big first indicators is the eye blink. It's usually, but not always, one of the first noticeable tics. Visit the tsa dash usa dot org website, or tourettesyndrome dot net has alot on co-morbid conditions with Tourette's, such as ADHD and OCD for example; or tourette dash syndrome dot com. Those are probably three of the best sites I've found so far, if you are interested in looking at them. I'm not sure about the rules on posting hyperlinks here (some boards frown on it), so I just included them as regular text.
thank you so much for your response, i have been to tourettes. com and read up alot bc his tic, but the only one my son has (and has had since he was like 2 is this neck one)... He does it alot less than he use to and mostly when he is tired or stressed (which he stressess alot). I just wondered if it was also soemthing that could be brought on w/ puberty. I do know that since Gavin has a tic, our dr. was more concerned regarding some meds making them worse. How has your success been w/ meds for ADHD and then the tics? I had just posted this in another thread here somewhere, that my son's tics are BETTER when he is on his Ritalin than when he is off the ritalin. They are worse when he is stressed and tired. In my son's case, I don't think the meds hurt the tics at all, and in fact I think it makes it better.That school is off their rocker if they think he should have already gottenThank you for the post. I've already met once with the SPED director and the teacher team and ass't. principal. I took very detailed notes of the meeting and typed them all up -- the meeting mins they sent me weren't anywhere near as detailed. He has bad math difficulties this year and I wanted to see about having him tested for a math disability. They said he doesn't qualify to be tested because he's had A's up until now in math. This is when they also told me he didn't seem to need a 504. I met after the meeting with just the SPED director and indicated that I would be pursuing a 504, and every time something came up in the meeting that was a concern, I said "and that is something that I would like to have considered for a 504". The math teacher already gave him an extra book for at home, gives him extended time on tests and preferred seating -- but it's not in writing. The biggest problems are math, and completing projects and research as far as home goes. He also tells me he is bored in most of his classes, except for math and gifted.
I'm going to see how today's app't. with the psychologist goes and work from there.
I will post back and let everyone knows how it goes. I don't intend to give up on getting him a 504, I will pursue it until I'm a pain in everyone's backsides.
:o) Thank you !
It's been awhile since i've posted, but my son Gavin who just turned 7 has been diagnosed w/ ADHD since Sept. 08. We are on adderall xr 10 mg (no problems thus far) He has just recently been accepted into our states gifted program. Everyone who knows him knows how smart he is but his impulses and behavior have always overshadowed how smart he is in school. He has a really great teacher this year who recognizes his ability. Ok, to my question.. Since he now classified as a gifted child the state mandates he have an IEP in place... which i am excited about b/c before i found out he was accepted i had recently spoke to his principal about a 504. IEP is i think a little more enforced. My concerns are since Gavin has a history of impulse and meltdowns what type of behavior stipulations should i put in his IEP.. I have been searching the internet for suggestions regarding IEP, but very few talk about behavior modifications. I want to go the meeting prepared. Gavin was given ISI (in school supsension) 2 times in Pre-k (public school) ISI 3 times w/ a full blown suspension in kindergarten.. and so far since on meds he has only had ISI once.. i fought the last one. Anyone have any suggestions?
Where is there ISI in preschool or K?? I have never heard of such a thing!![QUOTE=GZM]Where is there ISI in preschool or K?? I have never heard of such a thing!![/QUOTE]
Believe it or not at our school there is ISI (in school suspension) in pre K & kindergarten, and my son was also suspended for a day in kindergarten for having a meltdown and not listening.
My son Branden is also in gifted with ADHD. Here they separate the program into reading and math. So far, B is only in math (he is in 2nd grade working on a 5th grade level). Every year we discuss reading. In the past he had the ability, but no confidence. This year he is gaining confidence. I may ask for it for next year.
On to your question. In my state (IL) gifted is optional-no IEP. B's IEP is for special ed, so his goals are tailored toward his ADHD behaviors. However, at the start of the IEP process, you have to sit down with administration and decide what professionals will evaluate him (I forget what this process is called-we did it in kindergarten). This is your time to shine. Besides just having the IQ test needed for gifted, ask for Gavin to have an eval by the special ed teacher, and OT (to provide any help for sensory issues) and the school social worker. Also, you may consider an eval by the SLP-for social issues. Before we did it, we had a meeting with B's psychologist and decided up front what services were were going to ask for. Because he needs an IEP anyway, decide with his doctors what the school provides that could be helpful to him and ask away! Two nice things about gifted 1) small class sizes-esp in the early grades. Branden's math class has 4 kids. It is MUCH easier for him to concentrate in there and 2) the unfortuate truth is that teachers will often put up with more "stuff" from intelligent kids. It is an advantage to kids like Branden and Gavin, but I hate to think about what that means for average kids who need help.
As for in school suspension-I had not heard of that at this age. ADHD kids need help doing the right things, not punishment for their inability to concentrate. Branden always has an adult keeping an eye on him (he also has depression and on bad days will try to hurt himself). His social worker set up a program for him to help with frustration. He has a special pass to leave class and either get a drink of water or go to the social worker if he is too frustrated. He acts out when he is frustrated. His frustration comes from 2 places-either his own perfectionism or when classmates are making noise and he can't concetrate. His teachers have special boxes to keep him organized and make sure that he has what he needs to bring to math class or home. He was coming home without his jacket (in the middle of winter) or going to math without his book or a pencil. The program is set up to help him to do well, not to punish him when he fails.
Good luck with your eval-let us know how it goes, and congrats Gavin!
You ought to se how I feel. His Anxiety overtakes him and he is fine because he tests high on reading and math. SO WHATT??????? He has big issues but no help from them you have to fail first.You request that a behavior intervention plan become a part of the IEP. The BIP would describe in detail what action should be taken for meltdowns and for not listening which are both common adhd behaviors. Search for info on BIPs.I totally don't like this school. NO preschool or kindergarten should be in any form of suspension. Especially at this age. Those years families have not had the diagnosis and doctors do like to wait until they exhaust all areas as well.
Definitely get this on his 504/IEP plan This is just plain wrong!!
If he is still impulsive then his meds are where they need to be! HE either needs a higher dose or a different med.
Also, my son who is adhhhhd and impulsive is on tenex (guanfacine) it helps in that area. It relaxes him and he is in great control, nothing impulsive. Just wanted to share!!
My son is gifted and has ADHD, Anxiety disorder, Adjustment disorder and they won't issue us an IEP> he does have a 504 but his teachers don't follow it. If they actually followed it he might have a chance to reach his tru potential. He does not quialify for the IEP the school has done paperwork and testing and I have outside testing as well. they just say he is too smart to qualify for services.[QUOTE=spamula]My son is gifted and has ADHD, Anxiety disorder, Adjustment disorder and they won't issue us an IEP> he does have a 504 but his teachers don't follow it. If they actually followed it he might have a chance to reach his tru potential. He does not quialify for the IEP the school has done paperwork and testing and I have outside testing as well. they just say he is too smart to qualify for services.[/QUOTE]
Ok, your school pisses me off! Smart kids can have problems too. Just because a kids is smart, should not disqualify them for services to help with behavior. You guys are making me realize how lucky I am to be in the school district I am in.
Well we are lucky that the State of Louisiana (which is where we live) views gifted as a special needs child and if you qualify for the gited program, testing, evals.. then you automatically get the IEP. The meltdowns in school are FEW and far in between. We recently went up on his meds.. 10 mg of adderal xr and that was like a week after we did it. (if that). He has improved 90% since upping his dose. I will request a BIP, i just was unsure what "improvisions" i was allowed by law to have, b/c i woudl definitely like to see (when he has a melt down) that he be removed from class and given a quiet, cool down period. Most adults dont understand meltdowns from ADHD kids and see it just as bad behavior, however, when Gavin has a meltdown, he compltelty shuts down and will NOT answer anyone and just inverts. I will usually see some type of reclusive behavior when he is coming off his meds in the evenings. He at times becomes down right ugly and mean. Gavin i KNOW has aniexty issues, and probably mood issues but his pysch. will not diagnose him w/ these things until she gets his ADHD under control. I have no idea what's considered normal, but it does frustrate me. We live in a very small town w/ only 2 child pyschatrists and really no ADHD specialists. I dont have many resources to turn to in what would be normal treatment for a 7 year old. We have only been on meds since sept of 08. He also has tics (w/o meds) so we have to watch what drugs we use. Aside from the let down in the afternoons, i see very few if any side effects. He eats well, sleeps as normal as a child w/ ADHD sleeps and is doing alot better in general. WE have also started a booster on days when he has a baseball game and that also seems to help tide him over. I get 90% of my idea's and advocacy advice from online, reading everything i can to help my child. I just wish i lived somewhere there was an ADHD specialist who i felt gave me 100% in my child's welfare. Sometimes it feels as tho his pscychatrist, blows me off b/c he's not "a mental case. It may just be me, but i want to know so much about him yet get very few real answers. Thanks for all your help and also w/ one poster, i do agree that suspension is a ludicrious idea for children in pre-k and kindergarten and even 1st grade. Luvmykids0239925.489537037At my son's school (and as part of his IEP) he is supposed to go down to the SOS room for at least 20 min per week. I forget exactly what SOS stands for but basically here is what happens. If DS is having difficulty focusing on getting his work done or is behaving inappropriately and his teacher feels that he would do better in a quieter environment, then he can go down to another room in the school for some individual attention and a quieter place to spread out and do his work. They have fidget items in the room in case he just needs to have a little outlet for some of his energy. Once he has calmed down and completed his work he can go back to class. This is not seen as a punishment at all and my son enjoys going down to the room.i think this a meds issue.
Also a structured creative outlet such as art or spelling. When a teacher sees impulsive behavior.
I understand what you mean by total melt down .
hitting screaming hanging on to teachers leg, making disruptive noises.
what to do with that ? cant let tantrums just lay there kicking and screaming.
Peronally i beieve there eshoulb be an isolation area but not all day and not totally isolated fro everything like a prisoner - i think whe n thing get to that point mom or dad need isolate them from the school . not keep the behavior kids in a big room together gettting away with doing nothing but acting out.
If i were in a room of people acting out i may be tempted to act out too maybe even more than everyone else for attention. WHAAAAAAGH
IMPULSIVNESS IS HARD TO GET A HANDEL ON MEDS CHANGES MIX EMOTIONS AD TRIGGERS UP A LITTLE .
It is an NTer world. hard to get every teacher up to speed on mental health and the many approaches.
perhaps a chance to see a nurse if available before going into the dean.
still there should be limits even there to discourage negative atention.