ADHD and lying | ADHD Information

Hi bethann

Thanks for your input.

Im not 'against' meds, I just think they are not right for my son...

Know also that when he sits at a 'solo' seat in class, many (but not all, of course) times it is because he asks to so he can concentrate and/or keep himself out of trouble - its is usually just for a particular lesson or school day.

He (so far) hasnt suffered any real social problems either, he has friends, gets invited to parties, sleepovers etc..

Unfortunately for him though, his family and friends, though they love him, also know he is a bullsh*tter... Im sure you know the some adults that behave this way - doesnt mean you dont like them, but you know more often than not that they are full of it!

I very often struggle with the question as to if the issues he has really have anythign to to with ADHD, or if this is part of his genetic makeup - as I said, he is VERY much like his father in these behaviors..

Well, then sit him down, tell him he seems to have gone off the rails
somewhere, and you're going to get radical to get him back on track. And
start the marble technique, or my variation of it. Sorry I've typed it up I
think 4 times in the last 2 days and I just can't do it again! LOL Check other
posts here and you'll see me getting repetitive about giving kids goals to
reach and the knowledge of your total confidence he'll be able reach them
vs discipline, since it doesn't work so well with ADHD kids.Also - I don't think you should get caught up on the "it's genetic" thing.
Frankly, it's a cop out. There are plenty of people who have genetic
addictive tendencies or genetic physical limitations or genetic diseases
that are way worse than ADHD or obnoxious anti-social behaviors, and
with some extra work and guidance they leave their genetic limitations in
the dust and excel. Your son can too.

Don't give up on him because he reminds you of your ex. Don't decide
out of hand that you're not going to try every possible path. Consider
getting him reevaluated and listen to what the doctor(s) tell you.

We can only fill you in on our personal experiences. We don't know your
son. We don't know what's going to work, and you don't either until you
try it. We can only explain our paths so if there's one you haven't
stumbled upon yet you can explore it.

Hang in there - you can do this!

ok, all i'm really going to do is vent so i hope you all don't mind.  i'm to the point of tears and i want to run away. my son is 13...14 in aug and ADHD w/ ODD.  i don't even know where to start.  Lying is the biggest problem. lying lying lying and over the smallest stupidest things to boot.  in late 05 early 06 (i think) he started on straterra...did nothing at all.  then we put him on concerta OMG it worked great.  went from d's and f's to a's and b's. he was on that for a while which by the way that was 5th grade for him.  when he started middle school that was the beginning of the decline....ever so gradually.  for the past two years it's been steadily getting worse. mainly the problem at school is failure to turn in work and failure to come to class prepared.  oh and talking. FINALLY his psychologist mentioned a 504 plan which i made sure was implemented immediately.  it's helped, but there are still problems, the same problems.  once the concerta ran it's course we tried vyvance.....that just added aggresion to the mix. now he's on focalin, seems good so far.  At school over the past two years i have had numerous phone conversations with either the vice principal/ principal over something he has done at school. 

about 5 months or so ago one of my bra's went missing, tore the house apart even looked in the freezer thinking maybe one of my boys was playing a joke on mom. never did find it. about 2 months ago jake, his step dad and his older brother went shooting at the range (bow/arrow). then when they got home i went with the little one and my husband (older boy went to work).  when i got home i was in my room looking for somehting and began to notice that something was missing and things weren't where they should.  i confronted jake and NO NO NO he wasn't in my room. for some reason i went and searched his room...never thought to do this in the past.  There under his bed were items that were in my husbands nightstand drawer and things of mine....something that was obviously taken from a previous search as well. He denied all of it....except for one of the several items taken from my husbands drawer. the next day we put locking knobs on our bedroom door and his older brothers because he took a couple things from there also.  About 3 weeks ago i worked in the garden and when i came in and took a shower i forgot my bra and left it in the bathroom.  my husband placed it on top of the cabinet. i saw it there Sunday morning and by sunday evenning it was gone.  Ok....searched his room again found nothing.  then i started thinking....he knows that i routinely check his room now and his younger brothers room is basically connected to his so i began looking in, behind under things in B's room.  There, behind the stuffed animal bin were 3 of my bra's...never even knew i was missing the third one :o)   he denyed it to the mat.  i've questioned everyone.  Yesterday.......got a call form the principal AGAIN.  this time jake is being accused of making a racial remark.  not directed at anyone, but i have raised my kids NEVER to make remarks or think of someone of a different race as different from themselves.  we all bleed the same color.  I was broken when i heard that.  of course jake deny's it.  the setting was in the cafeteria and he said he had 6 friends at his table that says he didn't say it.  the principal tell me that he called one of those students in and didn't ask "did jake say this" he asked him to tell him what happended and he did.  he said jake said.........   on my way home last night i stopped by this boys home and spoke with him and his mother and sure enough the boy told me what happend....he said it.  What gets me is that jake will put on such a performance to to defend himself and as badly i want to believe that maybe jake is just being the escape goat i think he's the culprit.  I am at a complete loss. i know i have rambled and i'm all over the place and i'm sure most of you are probably lost and is saying the is woman is certifiable and trust me i'm starting to believe it myself....but i don't really have anyone to vent to.  i won't talk to my parent about it because i don't want to cloud their vision of jake...it's already clouded enough, my husband is not exactly mr sensitive about this (he's not completely on board with the whole adhd thing) so thank you for letting me vent and use your shoulders for a bit. 

I think both impulsive behavior and puberty.

His meds are not helping him control any impulses. He is also going through puberty, is several years (maybe?) behind socially (most adhd'ers are).

I would start with meds. Have you tried concerta? Some like adderall xr. Strattera is great for those with add, lack of attention, not having any hyper or impulse problems.

I hope this is helpful, poor kid. He doen't realize what he is doing, I think

concerta has run it's course.  yes...i believe he is 3 - 4 years behind on the maturity level. he's supposed to go to high school this coming year and i've talked to him about repeating 8th grade....at a different school of course.  he's on board with the idea. academically and maturity wise he's not ready.  he's been on focalin xr for about 8- 10 weeks or so.  jake says it's working, i think he could use a bit higher dosage.  one teacher said he's perfect in her class another teacher says he's disruptive and doesn't do his work. There is so much more to this story that hasn't been told, i've just grazed the subject. i don't know how other mothers feel, but i want to curl up and die somedays. i feel like the worst mother.....where did i go wrong?  My oldest is an honor student, graduating this year albeit he's self centered and lazy, but i very rarely have any problems with him.  my 4 year old, i'll probably be on a first name basis with the principal of what ever school he goes to....maybe dinner with the family once a week.  i just don't get it. 

please feel free to PM me, if you would like. I am very compassionate over things like this. I also think the meds aren't working due to puberty.

I am so sorry, I have had many a night crying. I know the feeling.

You are not the worst mother. You care, look where you are on these boards looking for help. I wouldn't talk with other mothers who will always defend their children, even lie for them, I would let them come to you if they have a complaint., just my opinion. Don't make it worse than it is!!

Is he on a 504/IEP?

I am suprised that he doesn't mind repeating and not being with friends, are they his friends????

yes he's on a 504, has helped, but not like i had really hoped it would.  Jake needs to take responsibility, but it seems he doesn't do that.  I can only do so much....he's almost 14 he needs to take the responsibility.  he was on the fence about repeating...of course all of his "friends" are going on.  He said he wants to go to college and i asked him if he feels he's struggling now with his work and he said yes.  so i explained that colleges will look at his entire high school stay and that it's a completely different world, they won't baby you or hold your hand.  they won't ask you if you've turned in an assignment.  you will fail.  i told him not to look at this as a punishment, but rather a fresh start.  new school, new friends and they don't even have to know you're repeating.  he then said if he repeats he could be going to high school with his 7th grade friends.  then i asked him what he would say when his now 8th gr friends say something when he's a freshman and they are sophmores. i said you could explain that i (him) felt like i needed some more time and that i thought (him) it was best to get some more practice before i moved on to high school.  he also looks at it as he'll be in the correct grade.  he's the youngest in his class. he started K the day he turned 5 (i should have started him at 6) hind sight sucks.

My son is the youngest in his class and has adhd, which makes him even younger. I should have kept him back but he was too intelligent.

On your 504 plan, you need to have it written into it, "have teacher Jake for his homework each day" ! That should help.

Your son being the youngest, he might do better. I am glad that it doesn't bother him.

Have you had him evaluated for a IEP, any learning difficulties???

it's written in to the plan that i will receive emails from the teacher at the beginning of the week for the weeks assignments. 2 of the 4 teachers are pretty good. jake is definitely smart enough to handle the work, we haven't had any testing done, but i really don't think there are any learning difficulties other than his adhd. is a 504 and IEP the same?

IEP is stronger, it is also followed more by schools/teachers than 504's. It honestly depends on your school/teachers how they follow it. Our school does, but others here talk about how theirs doesn't.

Any learning disabilities?

None.   from what i'm reading the lying seems to be strongly affiliated with adhd.  do you know of any techniques to help with the lying?

therapy

i too  lie  and for reasoni dont understand.

im lucky though  because at least i know my lies are bullstuff.

 

being a liar in this techno culture wont be  accepted  or forgotten.

 

 

this isnt advice jus somehing  poppedin my head  just now.

 

thats why i say this a therapy issue   where   a child will get tripped up  and have to face it     and could be guided  by a professional to recognize when hes starting to lie  and how to put on the brakes   as oppossed to    living a lie as an adult.

 

keep a journal  -   oh  i knw thats   a big    blow up " how dare you you keep track   of me invasion  of my space   " holding things agianst me  . emotional  drama.

but heres what catches my eye.

 

his peers   start telling peers  about his lying  

only they do it with blogs and sms, mms, email  .

thats the same as  keeping a journal   only  its   public

 

get lying as  a reputation and isomeone  lies on you too   you could get  sunned by positive peers  or worse   .

 

anyway  i like that you brought this (IMPULSIVE) behavior BACK INTO THE FORUM .

I know hat many of my lies where  created just trying to be accepted so i lie a little   just to act like a big shot     it really backfires 

especially if all i want is to be taken seriously.

not a far leap  from  excuses   to  bold face lie.

accountability   no excuses

face up  to it youll get natural consequinces   sometime a punishment 

 

avoiding punishment with a lie     doesnt excuse the  offense

so you  have 

the offense natural consequinces for offens self lie loss of trust from  others punisment for lying

 

thing is to learn this lesson the hard way means lookng like a fool to everyone around you.

try learning from others mistakes  on this one.

see a therapist and have it sorted out privately.

 

 

--------------------

freedom of speech was put into our constitution for this very reason.

all these years later  with multi media   "the media"

the media  is to expose  lying and corruption  as a way to know when to vote for others .

 

and is a fundamental part of the presidency of the states .   one man can call to an audience through media

  where the other 535 are nearly always divided.

if we lie  we wont grow very big  .  not big at all

 

it goes on and trickles down  from  the serpent in the garden and has consumed  all ever since.

so for me personally    i look in a mirror    and wish to be true to myself .

if i cant be honest with myself and know the difference between what i believe and the truth  then i cant even pray.

----its a terrible thing  when everyone loses faith in your words .

i wont do it again  wont keep you out of prison or with your children as they grow up. 

liars cant keep vows  --  no family

liars cant keep promises  -- no job

liars cant be trusted  -- no respect  not even self respect

 

--------------

so yeah  lying is a big deal issue

 in fact is a main reason for continued  drug abuse and relapse.

self talk is huge in that respect

if youre constantly making excuses and not being accountable 

if in he army your buddies will frag you if at home  there will be no peace if at school you will fail if in a car they wil take your license away if

it goes on and on and on

yet therapists and counselors see it alot

how to get to the truth   its what they do.

 

 sorry i keep falling asleep

ommas39923.9028125Having raised 4 step children to adults, have 4 grandkids
and my youngest stepson had severe ADHD and is now 31 I can
say that most 11 year olds, and there are exceptions, are
pretty ego centric. ADHD kids and especially those with ODD
are prone to not accepting consequences and using lying as
a strategy - since they are prone to so many problems in
life. My stepson stopped lying when he was on his own and
is doing very well today. I always tell him all my gray
hairs are from him. I understand how frustrating and
hurtful it is. There are no quick and simple answers to
this one.

I also agree with Corrina about impulsive behavior.

Only because our son has had so much success with meds, I have positive things to say about meds. Our son has been on them since he was going on 7. they truly saved his life. He should have started them sooner, at age 5 when diagnosed, but I was afraid of them and changing him, making him a zombie, his poor little body, he is so young, etc.

If I had started them earlier, I could have saved him from all the troubles and pain he suffered. He was labeled, wasn't included in birthday parties, teachers knew of his exclusion, but did nothing to help, etc.  

I always feel bad for the children who suffer due to the parent either being afraid due to their age or feeling that they can overcome their circumstances. I was one of those parents.

Unfortunately it is the child suffering, not the adult. The child is at school being punished for things they CANNOT control, some get teased/bullied for being in trouble or having troubles with things that are part of the ADHD. They are diagnosed with a condition. It is real. Some need help, some do not.

I just wonder if you tried something, it could control his impulsiveness.

It really makes me sad to read that he sits solo for things that may be able to be controlled with some help.

My son wouldn't be where he is today without meds, He is really H and impulsive. But I also know that some children who aren't as severe need just a little something.

I can only speak from my personal experience, and my son has not been chemically changed due to his meds. Honestly. His real personality actually comes out while medicated. He is his true self. Without meds, he becomes this overstimulted, hyperactive, impulsive child. Even his doctor made a comment about how his ADHD got in the way but when he was medicated, how the real him came out.

He has a hard time re-directing or self regulating due to the overstimulation. Obvioulsy, at age "almost" 12, he has gotten better, however, he can still act like this. He is also young for his age maturity wise. But he is simply brilliant academically and educational wise.

I hope you rethink meds since your son is older and can talk about how it makes him feel. The teen years are tough and impulsive behaviours during those years always concern me.

Again, I am not a med pusher, just a mother. I am only trying to help your son. I respect you as a parent and only want the best for your son and you!

Check out the alternate therapies board then, too. You're also describing
symptoms that occur with yeast poisoning, and other physical conditions.
Didn't work with my son, but perhaps a diet change could give him just
enough of a nudge so that he can control his impulsivity better.

Another thing you could look into, which might not help you right now
but might be something you can hang on to while you get through this
period. They've been studying ADHD and one prominent theory (the one
my son's doctor believes) is that it is caused by parts of the brain growing
out of sync. You have a preteen - you might have started to see the odd
growth spurts, or might remember someone in junior high who had a
huge nose, but by the end of high school had "grown into it?" The theory
is the same thing happens in kids' brains, and so some kids can grow out
of it. If that's the case, then his downhill motion might start to reverse
itself.

Of course, you should do everything you can do to help him now. That
includes making absolute rules and making sure he follows them. And
the skills he learns now will help him his whole life.

Hang in there mom!My son is younger, but he does periodically lie and I think it's impulsive
vs. malicious. It could be kind of like that too with your son. What I do is
give my son another chance. I don't flip out if he denies something, I just
say "Are you sure?" and completely forget the lie if he fesses up. I also
don't deal with the problem while he's still emotionally worked up. I
thank him for telling me and ask him if I can take some time to think
about it. When we've cooled down we talk about the original problem.

The taking things - he's not the only kid who does it. And again, it could
be just an impulsive thing, and then he doesn't know how to make it right
again. You could set up a "return bin" in your house for stuff you use and
can't put back right away. Use it yourself so he doesn't feel like he's the
only one. For instance, you've got something to go in the car, it's raining,
put it in the bin until you can put it away. If you borrow a book from your
husband, put it there so he can pick it up. Make a family rule that
everyone should check the bin for their stuff once a day. Then your son
can work on getting a handle on it without suffering the trauma of a
confession.

I understand how it feels when you're at the end of your rope. I kind of
cheat when I'm at my worst - I ask my son if he thinks I'm doing a good
job as a mom and why. He always as a wonderful answer for me. Can't
do any better than getting it straight from the source, you know?

Hang in there - you're in a valley, but soon you'll be back up to where
you need to be.Sounds like he's impulsive. Additionally he's probably dealing with puberty
and peer pressure. It might be time to look at meds again. There are
different classes of medications - things have changed even in the 5 years
since you started this.

Search for lying in the message boards. Unfortunately this is a topic that
comes up frequently. You might find something that helps.

Keep talking - it really helps!

HI - thanks for the input

I dont think that peer pressure or puberty has much to do with his overall problem, he's been this way all his life...the thing that is distressing to me is that his father exhibits much the same behavior, which makes me wonder if he is hard-wired this way.

In regards to medication, Im sure there have been advances in this area, but aside from the health detriments, I truly feel that chemically altering someones personality is not going to 'fix' their problem -- only mask it for a while... 

I think that he needs to find a way to adapt himself to the world, while still remaining 'himself' in his own skin...however LYING is unacceptable behavior.

My son is 11 and was diagnosed when he was in first grade. - This testing was at my request, there were only minor issues in school, but Ive always known something is not quite right..

He is not hyper, does very well in school (work-wise) and is very smart. His diagnosis came back as 'moderate ADHD with a strong tendency towards impulsiveness.

We put him on Concerta for about a year when he was 6/7, but I decided the the 'cons' outweighed the 'pros' and stopped giving it to him - it really didnt do much for him.

He saw a psychologist for a while around that time as well. She didnt really do anything that helped him, and in fact thought he was a 'delightful kid' *** Ill note here that I got divorced when he was 3, remarried when he was 4. He has a good relationship with his dad as well as his stepdad and stepbrothers. I'll also note here that his father has many of the same behavioral issues as his son.

As Ive said, he does quite well with his schoolwork, so his 'problems' arent textbook noticable...he often gets moved to solo seats due to his contant chatter and distracting of his friends, but there havent been any severe problems to date.  He gets distracted easily, however can spend hours working on any number of detailed projects if it is something he is interested in.

My best analogy for his behavior would be the old Family Circus cartoons with the crazy dotted line showing the kid getting from point A to point B....he just gets 'lost' often

All of the above, I feel, is manageable behavior that he knows is just part of 'being himself', he'll learn to accomodate for it as he grows up, and thats OK... 

The REAL problem is, that now and always, he lies and embellishes. We've had endless conversations about consequences (which there consistently are) We've tried positive reinforcement - we've tried countless different angles to get him to understand that the lying is much worse than whatever he's done that he's lied about.

He lies to try to avoid a consequence, but also just spouts crap to family and friends about any old subject - in short, he's pretty much a sh*t-talker...often....and he (as well as everyone else) know it!

Most often he will fess up quickly when I question him about something he says that is obviously not true, but occasionally will go to the mat insisting he's telling the truth.

I love my son very much, however he is and has so far proven himself to be a very selfish individual - its is seemingly obvious that most of his lies are to suit his own purpose - either to avoid a consequence, or to share his self-importance with others (I realize that lots of kids do this type of thing, but it is consistent...)

We have blow ups, he is more self-aware for a while, and then he reverts back to usual behavior

I dont know what to do - Im very worried he will grow up and keep this behavior - which is not at all an admirable trait in ANYONE.

Help!

 

 

 

Keep us posted!!

I honestly don't. I have the adhd'er son who doesn't have this problem, BUT, when I was a child, I was horrible, but younger than your son. My parents never believed a word I said.

I think between your son being young for age ( and you believe several years) AND being adhd and impulsive, it all plays into it.

I learned later on not to, and it got me NO WHERE. I also think maturity played a role with me and for your son.

He should also care whether his friends think he is liar, but again, this is also maturity with peer pressure and all.

I really feel for our adhd'ers - life is hard!!

Why not increase his concerta!!

How about tenex/guanfacine to help his impulsiveness??? It may help!!

sorry for the delay in replying, i took friday off and took my 2 older kids on a white water rafting trip this weekend.   

 the first time when he was on concerta he was up to 72mg.  Jake said he didn't feel it was working so we switched to vyvance.....was on that one for about 4 or 5 mo and off he came.  we went back to concerta at 105mg....still he didn't think it was doing it's job.  we are now on focalin 30mg and we just upped the dose to 40mg yesterday.   i'll ask the psychiatrist about tenex/ guanfacine.