New to all of this! help! | ADHD Information
My son doesn't have ODD but he had horrible ADHHHHHHHHHD and self-esteem problems (starting at 3 years old!). He would say things like "nobody likes me". "No one will play with me because I'm bad" "I'm always in trouble" etc. His psychologist explained to me that when these kids (ADHD kids) are constantly corrected, redirected, told they are out of control, told "stop", "quit doing that", "pay attention" all the time that they go one of two ways-ODD or self-esteem issues. He said the ODDers direct the negative frustration of always feeling inadequate OUTWARD toward other people and it equals "opposition" and "defiance". Other kids (like my son) turn it inward and have those feelings toward themselves and it comes out as low self-esteem.
I don't know specifially what helps ODD but I can say that medication for my son's ADHD has done wonders for his self-esteem problems. Once the medicine was stabalized he was more in control and only got into trouble a few times a day instead of 300 times a day! So I think he had a lot less negative energy to find a place for!
Generally if a type of stimulant is going to work you'll see at least some difference in your child almost immediately. If you haven't seen any difference then either the dose is too low or Adderall is not the right medication. Stay in close contact with your doctor to make the adjustments that need to be made. Sometimes a small adjustment in the dose or type of medication can make a huge difference.
Also, you mentioned that she has a high tolerance for pain. So does my son. When he was younger he would literally crack his head and be bleeding and come to me and as calm as can be and say "Mommy I'm bleeding again" It seemed like nothing really hurt him. This is because he has Sensory Integration Disorder. The bood "The Out-of-Sync" child is a good book that explains it. You might want to check it out.
Welcome to the site and I wish you the best!
hi!
thanks for the info! i will definetly check out the book! yes when she was 4 she fell on the edge of the trampoline i had to help her burn off energy and she broke her nose and we didnt even know it was broken for days. she just said she banged it, never cried.
whats done for the sensory intergretation issues?
and i would love to know more about tenex! i mentioned this briefly to the doc today when i spoke to her nd she nearly freaked on me lol!
i would also love to know... what type of doc should be addressing all these issues with my dd in a gentle non threatning manner. the word pschiatrist scares me to death!
I know it can seem scary to think about going to a psychiatrist but I've had the best luck with one! We 1st started with just the pediatrician working with the psychologist trying to get the meds right. But my son was so young and difficult to find the right med that they recommended a specialist. That's really what psychiatrists are...just medicine specialists. I recommend one that is experienced in ADHD. Just be aware that they are more the "scientific/medical" types and not the "touchy-feely psychologist" types. They are usually just down to business and aren't involved in therapy. Once we went to the psychiatrist, it took no time at all to get the meds right! Don't be afraid! 
My son does Occupational Therapy for his Sensory issues. He still has them, but not nearly as bad. He has bad sound sensitivity (certain sounds spook him and he panics), touch INsensitivity (which makes him very rough with everyone and everything because he doesn't realize how rough he is) and vestibular problems (inner ear/balance problems/poor coordination). The therapy has worked very well for him. I thought it was interesting that you said you used a trampoline because that is one of the things the O.T. uses in her office for therapy.
But the stimulants can (and did) actually aggravate the sensory problems. That's why we added the Tenex. The Ritalin worked wonders for the hyper/impulse issues but aggravated the sensory stuff. Tenex REALLY helped calm the sensory problems. It is actually a high blood pressure medicine if used in adults but it's used pretty commonly in children with ADHD to help calm and to help sleep. It worked great for my son! Your doctor probably freaked out because not many doctors are comfortable using it "off label" for kids but the psychiatrists are used to it.
I haven't checked lately but there used to be several topics started in the "ADHD medications" section that talk about Tenex. You might want to check them out and see if they help any.
hi everyone!
ok. my dd will be 9 in less than a month. she is homeschooled and 53 pounds.
ive known since she was 3 and evaluated that she had adhd. we have delt with it all along with herbs and diet. but her impulsiveness as hw grown out of control and she had 2 near extremely dangerious situations early this summer and we decided we now had to do something before she needlessly hurt herself.
at the eval.. they dx;d her adhd with high impulsivity and ODD.
her focus is so so, mainly i guess because she is homeschooled and is worked with one on one (she has a sister a year older than her). the impulsivity as i said is awful. she acts like a 3 year old alot and runs through the house screaming and making animal noises. she has a higher then norm pain tolerance and gets angry or frustrated rather easily.
the doc gave her adderal xr 5 mg. this is day 2.. so far i dont see to much of an improvement.
any advice ideas thoughts anything? im so very new to all of this and very worried about my daughter!
thank u for any help!
welcome sweetsouthern,This doc... was a script for Adderall XR all that was provided? If this doc didn't explain to you that, while medication can be very, very effective, the combination of medication and appropriate support/counseling/therapy is the usual approach for ADHD--in children and adults. This dual approach is what the National Institute of Health and other organizations recommend for ADHD. For the situation you describe it certainly sounds to me like more than medication is needed!
hi! thank you for the response!
the doc had said that in many cases adderall or concerta is the first course of treatment and that alone works fine. in other cases if these 2 dont appear to be working then she would be transfered to a behavioral therapist.
i have no idea what a behavioral therapist does for an eval.
So this doc is thinkin' that Adderall's gonna take care of your daughter's diagnosed ODD?? Phew! I know Adderall is good, but I doubt that even Shire LLC claims that their ADHD product goes that far! Well, I'm mighty skeptical, but it sure would be some nice if it does the job! So let us know how it goes....yeah i guess lol!
now u see why im here and posting lol!!!
so please tell me.. what does help with odd? i can and will look into the therapy/counseling approach as well... but is there a different line of meds for it?
as u can see... i dont want to make the mistake twice of walking into this blindsided, so as much info and amo i can get under my belt would be great!
thank you!
I dunno....no one ever dared try anything on me!! u might try googling and see what you can find on this. I honestly have no experience (or opinions).
so did it have any effect last night?
We use a chewable (because when we started my son couldn't swollow pills) and I have to get it off of the internet. The brand is "Source Naturals" and it's Melatonin 3mg pills. The psychiatrist only wants him on 1/4 pill per night (about .75 mg) I guess because of his age. Most people on this site seem to use a lot more and I think it's all ok. I increase to 1.5 if needed. Almost all of the drug stores have Melatonin pills in all different doses so you can go there if you don't need chewables. You may also want to ask Bethann. I know she's talked about her Melatonin doses...
Hope it works for you! A child's attitude is soooooooo different if they get a good night's sleep! 
thanks so much for all of the info! i think if this doesnt land up being the perfect fit, im just going to ask for the referall then and move right on forward :)
thank you so much! hugs!
Good luck and keep us posted!
I agree with Logan's mom, sounds like some sensory intergration going on. It mimics adhd by the way. My son also has it. He is not ODD but has anxiety.
He takes concerta for the adhd and guanfacine for his anxiety - it relaxes him. The sensory gets better with age, as it is always changing. I do think his adhd meds help him.
I found it so hard finding the right med and right dose. Dont' give up but communicate with your doctor. If she needs an increase you do it immediatly, you do NOT wait weeks.
Let us know if we can be of more help.
hi! thanks for the info!
just so i understand, why is the waiting weeks for the increase bad?
we had a good day yesterday and a good sleep. i contacted a friend of mine who's an herbologist and he said we could increase the dose of the melatonin to 6mg, which i did and it helps alot! she was asleep by 11pm.
Because some think that the meds kick in after taking them day after day. You know if they are working within the first hour or how long it takes for the meds to get in their system.
Why wait, they won't be any different on the meds the next day. We would increase ASAP so my child was correctly medicated.
ok im following you now 
. the doc wanted her increased to 10mg adderal xr on day 8. tommorow is day 5, so if we have no nasty side effects today (so far all is well here) i will increase tommorow then ;)
theres one thing that i still cant figure out though. dd is EXTREMELY impulsive and ive been unable to tell yet if the adderal is doing anything for that or not. her impulsitivity just comesout of no where (example, jump in the deep end of pool, because she forgot she doesnt know how to swim..... run in parking lot, because she forgot to look for cars)...
any idea how to asses that? 
Wait, if the doctor said day 8, I would call and inform what you are seeing and discuss upping tomorrow. The higher dosage may help with impulsivness. My son is soooooo impulsive/hyper, etc. that he need the additional med. It is a blood med that relaxes him, no side effect!!
Call the doctor and discuss upping her tomorrow first!! 
ok. i will call the doc again :)
what type of doctor prescribed the blood med for the impulsivness? i think u siad it was tenex? when i mentioned that to the pediatrician she freaked on me
tenex is guanfacine. One is generic.
We see a pychopharmacologist for medication. he specialiazes in mental health therapy. Our pedicatrician referred us since he does not work in mental health.
You are a great mom, by the way!!
um thanks! lol! yeah i think when we go back in to the pedia. which at the latest would be 30 days, so 25 more... im just going to ask her to refer us to someone in mental health.
im kinda of afraid now were playing her game of russian roulette with the meds and if she doesnt have enough experience in the field, its probably not the best idea 
Yeah, I called it being a "Mad Scientist!!"
It was our pediatrician who mentioned not recommending himself for this area of medicine since he works with well children and sick and broken bones, etc. And he was right, i totally respect him even more for this.
the psycho pharm is awesome and totally brilliant with these meds, so many to chose from!! You would be amazed. he makes me feel very comfortable with what he has us try, trial and error, you will never know until you try - and he was right.
My son is still on concerta - 5 years AND guanfacine/tenex - same time, This doc prescribed this combo. My son is an honor student, plays sports, etc. just very quiet, independent guy. My son calls himself an independent guy.
We had horrific bullying in elementary school due to not medicating him until the end of first grade. I do not want any one to go through the same if we can prevent it!!
oh wow! that is just beyond awesome!
yeah i wish my pedia had had the sense to just refer us out. now im kinda upset about that fact. we will see.
on the lighter side, dd just ate lunch and if i didnt know better i would say the adderal is increasing her appetite! she is eating very well if not better than normal!
she is doing something funny with her fingers though. its no big deal really, but she keeps wiggling them every so often like she is trying to crack her knuckles. ive never seen her do it before.
It could be a tic.
Pediatricians do not specialize in the same field as mental health. I am glad we go to him, I feel like we are in good hands!
Honestly Pediatricians really should be diagnosising and prescribing. I think that is why it is OVER diagnosed and meds are over prescribed. And then there are the wrong meds and the right meds for each individual!!
BETHANN40032.4637731481yeah thats very true im seeing lo!
if it were a tic and its not "bothersome" really... is that ok?
My son had a throat clearing tic, the psychopharm had us ignore it, we did and it stopped. EVery now and then he says he has phlem.
If it gets in the way so that people could make fun, mention it. Are YOU able to ignore it??
oh yeah absoutley... its just i noticed she keeps doing it and then stops and then doing it.. it wouldnt bother me at all! lol!My experience has been that the pediatrician was VERY cautious in increasing or changing the meds and it was frustrating. Once we went to the psychiatrist things really got moving fast! We spoke to each other on the phone/texts almost every night and she would give us instructions about increasing the dose or timing. Since she was so available and we were in constant contact, we didn't have to wait a week or two in between adjustments.
My son started a grunting/sighing/breathy thing that I think is a tic. Doc said the Ritalin may be causing it but just to watch it for a little while. It seems to be getting better without any changes...
very interesting thanks for the info!
btw.. which is better to have dd see in lieu of the pedia? a psychiatrist or a psychologist?
update.. she had her adderal at 9 am today and at about 4pm.. it had totally worn off. shes hooting and yelling and running around the house and annoying the crap out of sister like she always does. i put a call into the pedia, but havent heard back and im surposing i wont now till monday since ts not urgent. sigh.
If it's a medication issue I absolutely recommend a psychiatrist or a neuropharmacologist. Psychologists cannot prescribe medication so they would probably have to work in conjunction with the pediatrician anyway. That's how our psychologist worked anyway...
I can't remember what you said before. Is she on Adderall XR? My son tried that and it only lasted about the same amount of time even though it's supposed to last much longer. He just metabolized it very fast. It's frustrating I know. Hang in there!
ok thank you!
yes adderal xr 5mg ... yeah its really strange lol!. i think im just going to insist on the referal to the psychiatrist then. thsi hit and miss stuff and waiting isnt really getting her anywhere!
Logan's mom....
what brand and dose of melatonin are u using for your child? if you dont mind my asking
ok. tic tacs are a bust
she is totally freaking out at the thought of swallowing it, now she wont even put the tic tac in her mouth! GAH! When I was giving my son pills before he could swallow them we would put it in a spoonful of applesause/pudding/jello. Depending on how small the pill is that may work because we tend to just swallow that type of stuff without chewing. Also I would get fruit cups with the little peach cubes and hide the pill inside. It's the same idea...the peach is slimy so he just swallowed it whole. Just some ideas...
Hi there, I saw my name mentioned as someone who may use melatonin. We do NOT use anything other than concerta (90 mgs) and tenex/guanfacine (same thing - 1 mg) daily - 354 days a year, no breaks in between. If we are late giving it, then we just deal with the late night owl. DS is 12.
Hope all is going well!
yes the new one seems to be helping :)
although... i up'd her adderal as its surposed to be to the 10mg yesterday and it didnt seem to do much. we were at the mall yesterday and she still wandered off... took off running in the food court and i think she may be getting more crabby.
I remember the one time we upped our son's adderall xr's dose he became angry, upset, crying, irritable, etc. All side effects that you don't want. Our pediatrician witnessed it and stopped the med that day. We then began concerta and have been very successful.
Keep an eye for any negative side effects. There are so many other meds to help her.
the doc said we couldnt do concerta because she cant swallow a pill... so the next thing to try would be focalin...
is there a way around that for the concerta? or dose everyone swallow? lol!
My son learned to swallow pills from adhd. He had no choice. He was so good now looking back, what a champ!!
Some parents have posted that they train the child w/tic tacs, just an fyi
wishing you all the best!!
Oops! Sorry Bethann, I think I must have confused someone else's posts with yours!