I’m losing my mind | ADHD Information

If you felt the need to reduce the Santa gifts last year, I'm assuming that this has been ongoing for a long time, but is getting worse. I would pay for a private evaluation with a neuro-psychologist at a childrens hospital. This will probably involve one visit for history and forms completed by the teacher and you,and then two more visits for a bunch of tests. They are costly but worth it, and then you will know exactly what you are dealing with, and you will also receive guidance on how to proceed. I would also get the book 1-2-3 Magic and follow the advise exactly as presented.I've never been on these boards before I'm seeking out help today because I just don't know where else to turn.

My daughter is 9 and has been diagnosed with ADHD. She's has been on Adderall for just about a year and a half and is doing leaps and bounds better with impulse control and hyperactivity than she was before we started. Lately though, we've (myself, my husband, her teacher, etc) been dealing with other issues of hers that we just haven't made sense of.

Let me preface this by saying I love my daughter so much and she is such a sweet girl with a huge, warm heart. She's also very smart and more than capable of doing the little we ask of her at her and at school.

She is ALWAYS in trouble now. ALWAYS. She's been grounded from the television, video games, the computer and the telephone (aside from relatives) since early September. It's just one more day or three more days here and there but it has added up until the end of the first week in December now. She was hiding food in her room and eating in the middle of the night until we finally had to put locks on all the cabinets and the fridge. The thing that kills me about that is I always try to get her to eat. I've never said no to healthy food or even crackers, it's only candy I keep away from her, and she's still hoarding it in her room, under her covers, eating hot dogs in the wee hours of the morning. She LIES. All the time. If her lips are moving, she's lying. A brownie is missing and the wrapper is found in her room - deny and lie. She never told us the truth about it. I even instituted a "Brownie Amnesty Day" just because I wanted to hear her say it and she still denies it to the point of tears. She lies about seeing spiders so she won't have to do things like shower, go to sleep or even put on her shoes. She has an excuse for everything including why she can't get her school work done. She didn't do anything in her class today. She didn't finish one single, solitary paper the entire day. She says it was because she didn't understand it. She understands it just fine, she did it for homework with little to no help. She also had a teachers aid completely at her disposal during the school day today and still nothing was accomplished. This isn't anything new though. If she doesn't want to do it for whatever reason, she doesn't do it.

My biggest pet peeve is her smirk. She has this horrible little smirk that she gets on her face when she's done something wrong and we're angry at her. It is an honest to goodness bratty smile. It's like she loves every second of it.

It would take me hours- maybe even more- to type out what she's done just in the past two months. I've been trying to just deal with this on my own and with my husband's help but I'm having a really tough time figuring out what to do. What prompted me to come on tonight is this: Christmas is coming up. Last year Santa left her a few presents and a note that let her know he was bringing her presents but didn't bring as many as he had initially wanted to because of her attitude and behavior. I felt so guilty but we decided it would be the best thing and would hopefully help her. I know that Santa would feel the same way I do, she doesn't deserve a ton of presents. BUT I know he would also agree with me in feeling that she is a child and Christmas is so special and I feel like a horrible person thinking about not giving her many presents.

I don't know what to do anymore. I need more experienced parents to please give me some advice and guidance. I'm lost.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Oh, I also forgot to add that she takes things apart and builds new things. We had to lock up any and all tools because in the middle of the night one night she took all of the screws out of her bookcase... She tapes things to random things and cuts anything she can get her hands on if she has scissors. She has ruined some of her favorite childhood items because of this.

Also, one last thing I forgot to mention, she steals. A lot. She steals anything she can from tape to paper clips to food and it's even happening with items in stores but so far- luckily- it's been much smaller items like twist ties and coffee beans. I'm so afraid this is going to escalate.

My first thought is that if she has had so many infractions that she has no hope until December then she has no hope. You may have to find an alternative. Maybe she has a means of earning the time, versus it being taken away.

I would also have her meds re-evaluated. The reactions to meds can be different over time. What works at one time may no longer work or have negative effect. The meds may also be impacting her appetitite.

The smirk may be part of being a 9 year old girl. My daughter has that too.

I don't know what grade your daughter is in, but if it is 3rd grade, I think it is a lot harder. She may be too embarassed to ask for help? Or is uncomfortable that everyone knows that she has in class support.

I personally wouldn't over play the Santa Claus angle. She likely knows about Santa, even if she is not admitting it and you don't want the holidays to be ruined forever. JMHO.

I know how hard it can be. Hang in there. Target 1 or 2 behaviors at a time.

TverMom:

I just had a whole big response typed out and somehow managed to lose it all. Sigh.

I would love for her to be able to earn time to do things. We've given her the ability to earn time off for good behavior which just basically means she needs to do all of her schoolwork in school, have a good day in school and have a day at home where she's not lying and smirking. It hasn't happened yet and it breaks my heart. I don't want her to be grounded.

We see her med doctor every month and I try to keep her updated on everything going on. I'll see what she things in about a month.

I would be very happy to hear the smirk is a "normal" 9 year old girl thing.

She's actually in the 4th grade. She's so smart that most of these things are very easy for her. She doesn't apply herself at all. When she copies words from the board or a book to her notebook she won't spell them correctly even through she's just copying them. She chose to not even spell her name correctly on the last few papers. She didn't just miss a letter or anything, she changed so many of the letters deliberately and wasn't able to tell us why.

I think she still believes but I could be wrong. A kid at school told her Santa wasn't real last year and she got in a fight with him sticking up for Santa and his real-ness. Maybe she has since changed her mind about it. I'm not sure how I could go about finding out which is a bummer. I really don't want the holiday's to be ruined so I'm having a really tough time with what to do. I don't want to reward bad behavior with an abundance of presents but I don't want her to feel left out either.

Thank you for your reply :)
First of all, I would disregard the smirk. Yes, it is irritating, but aside from that it does no harm. My husband says his parents and teachers were always angry at him when he was a kid for smiling when he was in trouble. It was just a nervous reflex. It may also be a defense to show she "doesn't care." That's the only defense she has when she is constantly in trouble and "bad."

. Inability to complete work in school is likely due to inability to focus, organize thoughts, pay attention long enough to get something done. THESE ARE SYMPTOMS OF ADHD. I doesn't matter that she is "capable" of doing the work. ADHD symptoms can get in the way. There also may be numerous distractions in the classroom.

. Long-term punishments are not working and will not work. Impulsiveness is a symptom of ADHD. Regular children do not think about long-term consequences. ADHD children even less so. The grounding and long-term loss of privlidges will, in my opinion, only cause more problems including the sense of hopelessness that someone above mentioned. What reason does she have to even try??

. I agree with others that she should be re-evaluated so that you can understand exactly what is going on with your daughter and help her find better ways to function at school and at home. I would definitely leave Santa out of it. Santa is about unconditional love and the spirit of giving, IMO.

I understand your frustration. Best of luck in finding solutions for your daughter.

[QUOTE=inspiredbymusic]First of all, I would disregard the smirk. Yes, it is irritating, but aside from that it does no harm. My husband says his parents and teachers were always angry at him when he was a kid for smiling when he was in trouble. It was just a nervous reflex. It may also be a defense to show she "doesn't care." That's the only defense she has when she is constantly in trouble and "bad."[/QUOTE]

I had never thought of that before. Thank you. Honestly, thank you. That makes me feel really good and really horrible all at the same time.

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. Long-term punishments are not working and will not work. Impulsiveness is a symptom of ADHD. Regular children do not think about long-term consequences. ADHD children even less so. The grounding and long-term loss of privlidges will, in my opinion, only cause more problems including the sense of hopelessness that someone above mentioned. What reason does she have to even try??[/QUOTE]

I agree with this completely. I don't know what else to do. I stay awake and cry most nights because I want to do what is best for her but I want her to be well adjusted and without the "the world revolves around me" complex I'm so afraid she'll have if she doesn't get grounded. I just don't know what to do for her.

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. I agree with others that she should be re-evaluated so that you can understand exactly what is going on with your daughter and help her find better ways to function at school and at home. I would definitely leave Santa out of it. Santa is about unconditional love and the spirit of giving, IMO.
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I will have her re-evaluated. I want to help her. I want her life to be as easy and happy as it can be.

I have been dreading Santa coming up short this Christmas. I don't want to do that to her. She really is so sweet and so sensitive. I can't stand to see her hurting. She just has two sides to her- one of them is the sweet, caring, loving little girl and the other is very sneaky, spoiled and whiney.

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I understand your frustration. Best of luck in finding solutions for your daughter.
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Thank you. No one I know has a child with ADHD and I've only been able to speak with my husband about it who very much thinks she will learn after everything has been taken away from her and she has nothing. I don't want to see her with nothing but I'm so at a loss.
On thing you might want to try is focusing on the positive rather than the negative. She needs interactions that make her feel good about herself.

When working on behavior, we focused on one behavior at a time. It made it easier to track on our part and for her as well.   One thing we worked on was compliance. We created what we called an "OK" chart.   Every time she did what we asked (big or small and sometime totally setup for success), she got check on her chart.   Once she earned on, it was never taken away.   At a certain level of check marks, she earned a reward.   It was simple, easy to do and it really worked and very positive. Once we had this issue under control, we moved on to the next item.

Also unstructured one-on-one time where she get to pick what you guys do could also be a real positive.

I would also agree with the other that a current evaluation and reviewing her current medication could be helpful.
[QUOTE=HorseMom]
One thing we worked on was compliance. We created what we called an "OK" chart.   Every time she did what we asked (big or small and sometime totally setup for success), she got check on her chart.   Once she earned on, it was never taken away.   At a certain level of check marks, she earned a reward.   It was simple, easy to do and it really worked and very positive. Once we had this issue under control, we moved on to the next item.
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May I ask what kind of rewards you used for this?

And also, what issues did you work on with it? I hope I don't sound too clueless but I am pretty lost on ideas for the moment.
Rewards could be anything.    It could be TV time, time with you, movie night. Anything that would motivate your daughter.    For us, she wanted her Nintendo DS back, so that is what we did. After that, it was a game for the DS. (She was 5th grade at the time.)

The main issue we used it for was compliance - basically doing what she was asked. Then I think we worked on keeping her voice down and not yelling so much.

After we did this, I had a journal where we would track my daughter's behavior day to day.    We had green (good days), yellow (ok days) and red (really bad ones). For her at the time, red days were usually days were she blew up and lost her temper and got violent (hit, kicked, tossed things, etc).   We had a goal of a certain number of good days in a row and she earned another reward.   The goal was tough and the reward was big and it worked for her.    The journal also gave me insight as to patterns in her behavior. I also tracked medication dosages/times.   The more clues I had, the more we were able to avoid situations that set her up for failure.

We worked on this stuff this time 3 years ago.   My daughter is now almost 14, in 8th grade and doing wonderfully.   Consistent behavioral therapy, medications at the right dosages and maturity have made a huge difference.
That sounds like something we could definitely try and soon. I'll talk to my husband tonight as soon as he gets home from work and set something like this up with him. Thank you :) The inconsistency is hallmark ADHD behavior. Just because they can do it one day, does not mean they can do it the next...

We are living it too...one book I might recommend is Transforming the Difficult Child /The Nutured Heart Approach by Howard Glasser and Jennifer Easley. It truly gives a road map for setting up the positive relationship yuu want with your child..and repairing a damaged relationship. Let's face it ...our kids get an excess of negative feedback..enough to last a lifetime.

Our DS has done so much better when we adjusted our attitude and expectations. As for the lying and stealing...this is so hard. Our son has done a bit of this. I believe the stealing is all impulse ..and the lying is a a learned behavior after constandly being in trouble. We have conditioned ourselves to staying calm, asking quietly about item/food taken.. asking him to remain in his room until he is prepared to talk about it...and then we do not punish for it. We hug when he tells us the truth and move on.

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It's so nice to see other people going through the same thing with success stories. Some days, I feel like things will never get better. Others, I'm so impressed with the strides she's making.

I spoke with my husband last night about the more positive reinforcement approach and we will be setting it up and implementing it within the next couple of weeks. I feel good about it.

Hi,

I am so sorry that your house is not a calm and happy one. Ours can be a mess sometimes too and I wish for it to be "normal".

Consider a behavioral psychologist. We will be starting one soon. They will help give you good tools to use instead of the same ones you have been using. Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, I only scanned the posts.

Also consider high epa fish oil supplement, and a probiotic like culturelle. I personally have not seen these help my son yet after 3 weeks but they say 3 months maybe.

Good luck and take some time for yourself, because you are not just a mother - you are an individual.

son 9yr adhd ODD

[QUOTE=Jessica N]If you felt the need to reduce the Santa gifts last year, I'm assuming that this has been ongoing for a long time, but is getting worse. I would pay for a private evaluation with a neuro-psychologist at a childrens hospital. This will probably involve one visit for history and forms completed by the teacher and you,and then two more visits for a bunch of tests. They are costly but worth it, and then you will know exactly what you are dealing with, and you will also receive guidance on how to proceed. I would also get the book 1-2-3 Magic and follow the advise exactly as presented.[/QUOTE]

It has been going on for a long time but at time's she improves (like this morning!) and shows that she is more than capable of doing everything expected of her. This is what makes the hard days, weeks, months so difficult to accept. Sometimes I feel like it must be the ADHD getting in her way and other times I wonder why she doesn't even try.

I will look into that book. I've looked into many others and tried so many systems with her but she doesn't follow anything.

Do you know what the tests are you mentioned? I'm curious what they could do and what they could find. I'm definitely interested in it and I will make a call to her doctor to see what she thinks about it too.

Thank you :)

Just wanted to chime in that it sounds like your daughter is really smart in addition to having ADHD ... sometimes called "twice exceptional." So copying words off the board at school is, frankly, boring her! And if there's one thing ADHDers won't pay attention to, it's boring things. Probably lots of things are boring to her because she finds them easy and not stimulating.

This happened to my DS in public school. He was so incredibly bored he would of course then look for something more stimulating to do. Which just doesn't work in the regular classroom. Then he would try so hard to control himself (I know now it took every ounce of energy he had) and eventually explode in anger by the end of the day.

Steer her toward exploring the things that interest her and celebrate those things; that will give her an alternative to all the things she may feel she is not managing very well.

Also, just a note on the medication and food issues -- I'm pretty sure Adderall can suppress appetite. Is she eating during the day, or not interested in food all day then ravenous at night? That could be part of the hoarding.

Sorry this is so long, but I also want to reiterate what others said about punishments, especially long-term punishments. They don't work with ADHDers.

One book I read described it as, you could hold a gun to an ADHDer's head to make them complete a task, but it wouldn't work unless you continually reminded them there was a gun there!

All true of our DS, who is 12 now, and goes to cooperative classes, and outdoor program, and does homeschooling so he can read upside down if he needs to! (Also Concerta is a HUGE part of the picture ... helps him so much!)

Best of luck!

Transforming the Difficult Child /The Nutured Heart Approach by Howard Glasser is very anti-medication. I found it generally unrealististic, and I suspect the recommendations could likely lead a parent to delay effective treatment, and cause a child to struggle longer than necessary.Transforming the Difficult Child/The Nutured Heart Approach... absolutely helpful for our DS who is UNABLE to take stimulant meds due to his Tourette Syndrome. Different strokes depending on the situation...

A good behavior modification program is helpful and parents adjusting their attitude is also helpful but because ADHD is not a behavior problem but rather a problem with impulse control, behavior modficiation standing alone will not effectively manage all the symptoms of ADHD, especially as the child enters puberty. In the absense of a good behavior plan, symptoms are exacerbated indeed but any child suffering from ADHD is not just a child who is difficult. It is a child unable to control their impulsivity nor are they able to filter out the distractions around them.

For those children who are able to take medication, as parents look for credible research and speak to your childs doctor about medication because medication in combination with a good behavior plan is the only effective treatment for ADHD. Get the facts and base your decisions on knoweldge rather than fear.

psbm, I'm glad you found something helpful for yor child

I've never posted to a forum before and I came here to ask questions but I feel I can give you some advice.   I've been dealing with this for years.   2 of my 6 kids have ADD or ADHD. My oldest has a very minor issue but it taught be a lot about what school can do.   My 10 year old boy sounds a lot like your son.     Every day is tough. Every day is a battle but it's actually MUCH better now than before.

First, a little change in meds make a huge difference.    We take vyvanse at 6:30am, to get through school, a small dose of adderal at 3:00pm to get through homework and intunive at dinner so that he'll sleep at some point.   I've never had good luck with a single med.   Ask your dr for a brain chemical workup.   You collect some urine several times a day and mail it to a lab.   They tell you exactly what level or what meds will work best.   It made a huge difference.

Next, go to your school and start making demands.   Very important, no matter how nice they are, tell them you want a 504 meeting and immediate cooperation or you'll get a state advocate.    Basically every school I've worked with from high school to grade school is broke and they wont tell you about great options you have unless they fear the state advocate.   You are 100% entitled to this.    Little things in school make a HUGE difference.    For example, my son has a wedge shaped insert that fits on his chair and has a bumpy texture.   This small thing alone, for some unknown reason, totally changed his ability to sit still.

It only takes a little time for in school success to improve self esteem which also changes behavior.

Also, find something that becomes your daughters zen.   For us, it's an atlas. His teacher discovered he likes looking at maps.   I got him a giant atlas and he can spend hours and hours going through it.   When he gets mad (which is every 30 seconds) he just goes and calms down with it.

I don't take things like presents away.   I'm 100% sure he has no idea how to associate the cause and punishment.   Threat of punishment of any kind won't stop him. Instead of taking things away we slowly build up to things.   For example, every time he does a chore he gets a ticket in a little bank.   he loves to count them. He only has 13 when his siblings may have 80 or 90 but he's happy and 13 is better than 0.   Those tickets earn rewards.

Hope that helps.

[QUOTE=.CMC.]I've never been on these boards before I'm seeking out help today because I just don't know where else to turn.

My daughter is 9 and has been diagnosed with ADHD. She's has been on Adderall for just about a year and a half and is doing leaps and bounds better with impulse control and hyperactivity than she was before we started. Lately though, we've (myself, my husband, her teacher, etc) been dealing with other issues of hers that we just haven't made sense of.

Let me preface this by saying I love my daughter so much and she is such a sweet girl with a huge, warm heart. She's also very smart and more than capable of doing the little we ask of her at her and at school.

She is ALWAYS in trouble now. ALWAYS. She's been grounded from the television, video games, the computer and the telephone (aside from relatives) since early September. It's just one more day or three more days here and there but it has added up until the end of the first week in December now. She was hiding food in her room and eating in the middle of the night until we finally had to put locks on all the cabinets and the fridge. The thing that kills me about that is I always try to get her to eat. I've never said no to healthy food or even crackers, it's only candy I keep away from her, and she's still hoarding it in her room, under her covers, eating hot dogs in the wee hours of the morning. She LIES. All the time. If her lips are moving, she's lying. A brownie is missing and the wrapper is found in her room - deny and lie. She never told us the truth about it. I even instituted a "Brownie Amnesty Day" just because I wanted to hear her say it and she still denies it to the point of tears. She lies about seeing spiders so she won't have to do things like shower, go to sleep or even put on her shoes. She has an excuse for everything including why she can't get her school work done. She didn't do anything in her class today. She didn't finish one single, solitary paper the entire day. She says it was because she didn't understand it. She understands it just fine, she did it for homework with little to no help. She also had a teachers aid completely at her disposal during the school day today and still nothing was accomplished. This isn't anything new though. If she doesn't want to do it for whatever reason, she doesn't do it.

My biggest pet peeve is her smirk. She has this horrible little smirk that she gets on her face when she's done something wrong and we're angry at her. It is an honest to goodness bratty smile. It's like she loves every second of it.

It would take me hours- maybe even more- to type out what she's done just in the past two months. I've been trying to just deal with this on my own and with my husband's help but I'm having a really tough time figuring out what to do. What prompted me to come on tonight is this: Christmas is coming up. Last year Santa left her a few presents and a note that let her know he was bringing her presents but didn't bring as many as he had initially wanted to because of her attitude and behavior. I felt so guilty but we decided it would be the best thing and would hopefully help her. I know that Santa would feel the same way I do, she doesn't deserve a ton of presents. BUT I know he would also agree with me in feeling that she is a child and Christmas is so special and I feel like a horrible person thinking about not giving her many presents.

I don't know what to do anymore. I need more experienced parents to please give me some advice and guidance. I'm lost.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.
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