very angery child

Hello,

My son took Concerta for almost a year before I realized it was the Concerta causing his explosive outburst of anger.  I also read "The Explosive Child"(I thought it was written about my child!) and it was a huge help.  It could be the Concerta causing some of the problems.  We are now on Adderall XR and it is so much better.  I hope this helps.

I would consider that this is a lot more than just ADHD and look into maybe early onset bipolar:

www.bpkids.org

or high functioning autism

www.autism-society.org

Violence is serious and ADHD meds for a bipolar c hild are dangerous, yet ADHD is often really bipolar, especially if there are mood disorders or substance abuse in the family. Military school or boot camp will do nothing for a child with a serious psychiatric disorder, even if it's just a neuro disorder like ADHD. They can't control how they behave. It could even make them worse or, more likely, they will get kicked out. I wish you luck and seriously doubt this is simple ADHD. Stimulants can be bad for other things---if he has been on stims and is still acting out, likely it's not ADHD. Many parents, and I was one once, cling to the diagnosis of ADHD because it is more acceptable than early onset bipolar or higher functioning autism, but our kids are what they are. A rose is a rose is a rose....if a child is not getting better on ADHD meds, imo it's good to seek a complete evaluation from a team of experts at a University or reputable  Children's Hospial rather than just conclude, "It's the ADHD." Many kids with ADHD, which is really a disorder of Executive Function, are not behavior problems. Once the doctor is thinking of a mood stabilizer, he is thinking of bipolar anyways, whether he says it or not, and the stimulants could be harmful to the moodswings, which cause the anger. Here is one last site that covers ALL childhood disorders. Great support and good posting board there:

www.conductdisorders.com   I wish you good luck. Imo you have more than ADHD on your hands. I'd look into it.

My son is also  10 and has the sam behavioual problems who also has aspergers syndrome, he lies alot to the point that you don't know aht to believe and also takes things which he knows he shouldn't.  When my son gets angry he tells me that he hates me, which is like a kick in the teeth at times after all the things and support I give him. He can be aggressive and lash out.  He is on concerta which can control some of the behaviour, but if he is feeling very angry it does not always work.  after being excluded from three schools he now goes to a special school which is alot better and he has now come to terms that he has something wrong with him, it also helps that he knows that he is not the only child with this condition.  I have been advised that karate is good for children with adhd as it shows them disapline.  I understand how you feel as I have been there myself when I have felt that I can not carry on like this and have thought of giving him up, the fact is it was only a thought and i would never do it as it is not his fault that he has this condition.  It also helps to know that I am not the only person who is going through this

I totally understand about the violence.  My son is 7 and was diagnosed about 3 weeks ago.  He is on adderall (which has helped immensely), but in the afternoons is still showing the violent side.  He bites and punches and kicks.  And the things he says!!!!  He tells his brother and sisters that he wishes they were never born.  He tells me I hate him all the time.  And totally heartstopping, he's said he was going to kill hisself before or that I wished he was dead.  I am new to all this and hoping that with our family doctor's help I can have a happier more peaceful boy.

I thnk the mood stabilizer is a good idea to check also. I would also look at the family dynamic and see where Dad is in all of this...many time boys act out of control becasue the FEEL out of control. Or they just don't know how to do the things a boy does...or (hopefully not) he is mirrorring what he sees from the men inhis life.

I think the FAMILY needs to enter the therapeutic relationhsip. Many times, a kid who acts out is the "symptom bearer" of the families problems. For us parents who have to endure this aggression, please know it must be HELL for the kid..If WE don't know what to do and we are the grownup...how desperate must that be for the child.  He/she wants someone to make it better....to make the bad stuff go away...

I wish u well in all attempts to make it better...

Haley in Ohio

My heart goes out to you all.  My son is ADHD and on Concerta & fortunately we haven't had much problem with violence & temper.  However I know he does have thoughts at times because he will draw guns & such.

Perhaps you could check on an ODD diagnosis.  If your current mental health provider is not meeting your expectations, you should find another.  Frankly, I've heard horror stories about the Military Schools, we have one in our state.  Our kids need discipline for sure, but these schools do not follow the same rules as you & I do.  They will let the other boys do the correcting & mentally it could do more harm than good. JMHO

hi everyone,

i'm new here and just want to share what my husband and i have been going through...maybe someone has some advise.

our son is 10 w/adhd, he's been on concerta for 4yrs now.  He's been so hateful and lies all the time about everything.  He can become violent at times.  he has hit his older and younger sisters and for the first time he picked up a stick and threatened to hit me.  i don't know what else to do with him, i have tried everything that i can think of to help him.  i'm so lost at this point that i've thought of send him to a military school.  i'm at my wits end i find myself thinking that it would be so much better if he just wasn't here.  i know that it is not right to feel that way about your child but i have 3 others that i have to think about and protect .  we have been through counceling before and have tried different meds but nothing seems to help.  i don't want to give up on him and i'm not going to...i just really need someone else to talk to about the whole situation.  i feel like i'm losing myself and losing my son.  This is an everyday thing.  if someone out there has any advise..please share it.

Thanks

Hello TRyan

I wish I had some suggestions for you, but our boys sound similar.  My son is also on Concerta, but this is only week three for him.  He picked up a hockey stick and threatened me with it about 3 years ago.  Today he punched me because I wouldn't argue with him.  He started melting down going out the door, and I chose to ignore and just keep moving.  I have tried calming him and that does not work so I thought ignoring the nastiness might.  Wrong.

I recently read The Explosive Child, and it did have some helpful info.  Maybe you can look for it.  Good Luck

For serious behaviors like aggression, or threats of aggression I make sure my son gets a serious message that his behavior is way out of line.  He would be sent to his room for the evening, and grounded from Video games, or his favorite acitivity for at least a week.    I don't make a big deal out of the behavior just hand over the consequence with a calm voice tone, and clear message "Don't hit etc.  I encourage telling the truth by ignoring minor lieing.  I don't catch them in a trap and label them as a liar.  I think in terms of why is he lieing- usually its to avoid trouble, nagging, consequences etc.

Look into different medications, and get real strict with behavior.  I have a list of behaviors on the fridge that need to be gone:  Eg.  Temper Tantrums lasting more than 15 minutes while in his room-results in 1 quiet hour in his room.  Getting home late results in not going out tomorrow after school-he has a 15 minute grace period.

Good luck-eventually things will get better but its super hard work.  Sometimes you don't think you'll make it through the day.  My son is 14  most days are good or manageable.  I believe it was because I chose specific and serious behaviors and set consequences he knew about, and would follow through.  Minor stuff like steeling cereal, eating cookies for breakfast, and minor argueing etc. were ignored.  Other irritating stuff was an automatic 10 minute time out.  Long haul but the results are great.  Think long term.  In five years I want my son to stop....       Keep positive but get tough.

ATWORKBUTSLEEPI point is well taken.  It's unfortunate but true that many kids with ADHD also have challenges with aggression and anger. This has been the case with our child.  I also recommend connecting with a good child psychiatrist.  It made a world of difference for us since he knew immediately what our concerns were and prescribed the appropriate 'mood stabilizer'.  We were not happy about adding an additional med to our son's diet of Strattera, but the Risperdal worked!  We now have our loving, caring and warm child back.  Don't get me wrong, there are still blow ups and lost tempers, but they don't last as long and they are not as hot as before.  Additionally, our guy is able to break out of them himself now.

Paul

Sue239

thanks for suggestions...i do most of what you suggested.  he does know that his behavior is unacceptable and he knows what punishment will be handed to him, he just doesn't seem to care.  he does do the sneaking in the the kitchen and eating junk food in the middle of the night or for breakfast and most of the time i let it go, but if there is a big mess then i'll get on him for that.  as for the lying i don't think that any lie is a little lie.  i would like to ignore the "small" lies but then isn't that really saying that lying is okay sometimes?  i don't know.  i'm glad to hear that what you're doing is working with your son.  my son has a dr. appt coming up soon and i think that you are right about checking out new meds  maybe he even a higher dose of what hes on now.  thanks for listening

tryan

This is a very interesting article that might be of help to you at:

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/drugfree.htm

By not making a big deal about lieing, I guess I mean.  Making jokes about it ie:  Nice story would you tell me the truth.  If I know that the child did something, I never ask him if he did it.  I say please fix that problem-clean the mess up etc.  Lies about what problem there was at school, I'd encourage him to start his convo with "I", rather than "they". I'd have to support the teachers and tell him what they said the problem was. Praise the truth.  Talk about the importance of and model telling the truth.  If you as a parent mess up-let him hear you self talk "I messed up, but oh well I'll have to fix the problem".  Talk about making mistakes and its okay.  I think some kids are really afraid to admit they messed up, so lie instead.

You tend to ask for lieing when you say "Who did..."   "Who started the fight...." These questions are a lesson in frustration for a parent.   I don't know if this is helpful or not. 

I have a couple of friends with children that were acting aggressive like yours....meds were not helping and both benefitted from making DRASTIC changes in their diets (they were sensitive to the dyes and preservatives).......visit http://www.feingold.org/home.html to find out what types of foods helped them.  One mother had a 7 year old daughter who was choking other children...change in diet was the only thing that worked.  She said it was not easy...but once you know what to look for in store and see the benefits..it is worth the trouble.

I say to my son when I feel his is being angry.  I dont think he even notices his own 'build up' at all.

I will mention when I see the signs coming - Damian - you look angry, either come here and talk to me about it and we can work out an answer together or go to your room or outside away from us, before you fight with us.

He usually leaves to the backyard - but I am hoping one day he opens up.

Please consider investigating food intolerences/sensitivities or allergies.   Our son, age 8, has been diagnosed ADHD/ODD/SPD & Tourette Syndrome.  We dealt with extreme anger and aggression.  Violent explosions..kill talk... destructive behavior in our home.  We were offered many drugs including antipsychotics/mood modifiers.  There is considerable discussion that ADHD symptoms (especially aggression/anger, etc.) can be caused by extreme sensitivities to diet/food.  In March, we put our son on an elimination diet ..and saw amazing results.  He is currently on gluten free/dairy free/soy free/corn free diet.  He is off all meds and we no longer have the over the top aggressive/destructive behavior. 

We are working with his pediatrician/nutritionist and an allergist to determine other things that he might have sensitivities to.  This restrictive diet doesn't help all ADHD/Autistic kids...but in some like our son...he has had a complete turn around.   I would consider it if you see other signs of food problems or suspect that he has problems with food...or if you or family members have problems with food.

Something to consider!  I doubt our son would now meet the criteria for any of the things that he had previously been diagnosed with...  He is off the meds.. not hyper, not defiant, no tics.  He still is all boy!

Good luck..I know how hard it is to live with a son that is out of control...