Hard Research? | ADHD Information

Hi Laurala,

Thank you! Sounds like fun (I wanna get my brain scanned as well LOL!). I will follow up and check out Stoneybrook. I appreciate you posting and letting me know.

Regards,

Buccaneer
Thanks, I will definitely give it a try. I think the best course for me would be taking it in mid-morning. I don't mind the early morning fog, for me it is more important to be clear during the rest of the day. I did try 5-HTP last night to help put me to sleep. It either worked like a charm or it was one of those rare nights when I actually could sleep. I guess time will tell if it continues to work. Thank again Duncan. Hey buccaneer-
I took part in an "empirical" study- double blind placebo all that, with brain scans- not just questioneers- brain scans on stimulants (when you didn;t know if you were on stimulants or not), and off stimulants. The study tested two groups- one with adhd, one without- large groups. I'm not sure exactly what was found, or if the study is even finished yet- it might be going for a couple years for all I know...It was at Stonybrook in NY, and maybe if you do a search on ADHD PET scan study Stonybrook or something you'll find some info... Even if this study is not complete, they may have some research from previous studies published somewhere.
Thought that my opening caveat that I was only interested in serious studies (you know, the sort with double-blind placebo controlled randomized structures) would have been enough to dissuade the herbalists (who are not all new-agers ).

Seriously though, if you do have access to the kind of qualifying research work (helps if it is peer reviewed as well) I am interested...even if it includes all kinds of herbal concoctions mixed in an alchemists medieval workshop

.

MG, thanks for the good wishes...will keep ya all updated (ps I have discovered this amazing new remedy for ADD. My brother/sister/uncle/cousin/best friend (choose one) swears it cured his ADD as well as his short-sightedness. If you give me your credit card and social security number details I will send you a sample bottle for only 0) LOL!!!.

SGG (I hope you didnt get your online name because you consumed too much of the herbal stuff *joke* LOL), unless it has been analysed, causal effects studied and can be replicated to the abovementioned level of scientific scrutiny, I consider it conjecture and want to keep the proven facts separate from anecdotal stories, however compelling thousands of years of faith in "herbal" remedies might appear.

BCGIRL, I hereby officially annoint (sic) you as official researcher for "project Rx" (until I can come up with a more suitable name).

Yellowdog, have made a note to send you any relevant research I come across.

Duncan, confusing cause and effect is a common problem. When you come across a proper study showing at least a very strong correlation (and decent validity) between taking the "natural supplements" you consume and the statistically significant reduction in adult ADD I am all ears. Until then I will rely on research that I have found indicating that approximately 10% of subjects report significant placebo effects when taking medication for ADD.

Once again, sorry if my replies are a little on the tackless/harsh side, but is seems that superstition and cause/effect confusion are making a big social comeback

. Promise that my intentions are sincerely to aid us ADD'ers in finding the facts amongst the heaps of fiction (for those who seek the facts of course).

I'd offer to help, since I actually LOVE to do research, I just suck at actually compiling a usable finished product with it.

Let me know if you just want a strictly research buddy.

I take natural supplements for my ADD and depression. I take 5-HTP for depression, and L-tyrosine for concentration and energy. I feel completely different from one month ago, before I started taking them.

I've read two books in the past seven days. And my cash drawer at work has improved dramatically.

Natural or herbal don't mean "ineffective".

If you feel like you want to itch a while, try some poison oak, then tell me it's ineffective. Our bodies respond to all kinds of things, some prescription, some not.

That's all.

--duncan

Just so you know, herbal doesn't always mean "New Age". There are many herbal remedies that have been around for thousands of years so they are obviously not "new". I know that there are many shady herbal remedies out there but it's kind of judgemental to presume that EVERY herbal remedy out there is just some made up New Age crap. Nothing in life is black and white. I don't blindly embrace all herbal medicine as legitimate but I don't automatically assume that about scientific medicine either. scarygreengiant38442.5481365741 [QUOTE=Mark Goode]

What does 'empirical' mean?

[/QUOTE]

It means Scientific Research based upon Experience.

I would be interested in research about whether neurofeedback is effective for adults with add.

[QUOTE=Taag Man]
It means Scientific Research based upon Experience.[/QUOTE]

Ah, good. I approve. There are too many Snake Oil remedies out there for this condition. Good luck with the website Mr Buccaneer.

I am a fervent Rationalist and was looking to compile a database of empirical research on Adult ADD. No quacky new age herbal stuff. No anecdotal mythical tales or other superstitious beliefs about ADD. No hysterical anti-ritalin diatribes. Just pure well done research.

My intention is to create an online database consisting of purely empirical scientic investigation into Adult ADD (sorry, I think there is enough research currently being done for kiddies...its us adults I am interested in).

If there is anyone who is interested in assisting me, or can point me in the right direction, would be much appreciated. Post links or PM me

.

Thanks (and apologies to all the new-age herbal, anecdotal, anti-ritalin types I have just offended

What does 'empirical' mean?

I was just reading the latest Driven to Distraction book, and he puts this forward as a medication that also helps SI.( "not just for kids anymore" ):

Amantadine! Which Helps executive functioning. ie-It increases dopamine in the prefrontal cortex,( but not in the striatum or the nucleus accumbens. I take it that means no wierd muscular tics). He says it goes:
     week 1           25 mg
     week 2         50mg
     week 4           75mg
     week 5           100 mg
[QUOTE=JerBer][QUOTE=duncan]

[/QUOTE]

Duncan, what strength of L-Tyrosine are you taking? Is there a recommended dose?

[/QUOTE]

I am taking one quarter of a teaspoon of L-tyrosine per day, in powdered form, mixed with an ounce or so of water. This is 425 mgs. The recommended dose, from what I have read, is 350-500mgs per day. The label on the bottle I have says 1700mgs per day, but that is higher that anything else I have read about the appropriate dosage.

I take it one hour before I get up in the morning. I set my alarm for 3:45AM, take the stuff, then hit the snooze button for an hour. My understanding is that the supplement should be taken with juice or water, not with a meal, as protein-rich foods can interfere with absorption. I eat a decent amount of protein in my breakfast, which is why I take it an hour before I get up. I tried for a couple of weeks taking it two hours after breakfast, on a then-empty stomach, but I felt like I was in that old fog for the first two or three hours at work, so I chose this other route, timing wise. I have grown accustomed to feeling focused and doing a better job, and now have less fog tolerance than ever.

Speaking of doing a better job, I have read one book per week since I started taking L-tyrosine, which makes me very happy. I was reduced to about twenty pages per day maximum for the past few years, and now I am reading in excess of one hundred pages per day.

I am also curious about the supplements DMAE and L-carnitine, and may try those one day soon.

Good luck to you!

--duncan

duncan38453.9869212963[QUOTE=duncan]

[/QUOTE]

Duncan, what strength of L-Tyrosine are you taking? Is there a recommended dose?

How technical would you like to get? I've been downloading some med-journal reports on the abnormalities in brains of ADHA and "normal subjects".

And I think I can maybe explain some of what they find - not 'till I do some reading on brain terminology.
But just imagine this: "Grey-matter density was increased by 15-30% in the posterior temporal lobes and inferior parietal lobes bilaterally in patients withattention-deficit hyperactivity disorder."

That's the part of the brain that interacts with the rest of the senses and forms concepts, it "imposes temporal order" on what's seen and heard. Complex Sequencing! ! Since sequencing seems what's amiss in Add, to me that means our excess grey matter is the problem: Too many connections! (You know how cell die-off sort of weeds off irrelevant neurons?) Just a theory. I'll check to see if I have it backwards.
martindale38453.8800347222

[QUOTE=martindale]
Would you be interested in making up a website with some sort of tutorial on the brain regions/functions and cite the latest findings from research? I love researching and am interested in finding out the chemistry and anatomy of this disorder. [/QUOTE]

Sounds like a good idea - but hey fellas, let's not have any pictures of any squishy bits of brain or anything on there

I'm squeamish, OK?

Mark -

[QUOTE=buccaneer]SGG (I hope you didnt get your online name because you consumed too much of the herbal stuff *joke* LOL), unless it has been analysed, causal effects studied and can be replicated to the abovementioned level of scientific scrutiny, I consider it conjecture and want to keep the proven facts separate from anecdotal stories, however compelling thousands of years of faith in "herbal" remedies might appear.

Once again, sorry if my replies are a little on the tackless/harsh side, but is seems that superstition and cause/effect confusion are making a big social comeback

. Promise that my intentions are sincerely to aid us ADD'ers in finding the facts amongst the heaps of fiction (for those who seek the facts of course). [/QUOTE]

I am not a hard core herbalist nor am I a hardcore pharmacy-pusher. I just try to open-minded about different things and see both the negatives and the positives. I'm actually trying to get meds myself right now because I have kind of tried several natural treatments with minimal success. However, just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean it won't work for someone else. Several members here have tried non-prescription methods for themselves or their kids with successful results. If it works for them that's great. Prescription meds don't work for everyone because we are all different. I know someone who is on prescription meds for a mental illness and the meds have really taken her soul and turned her into a zombie.

There are several members here who have posted about themselves or their kids having negative physical reactions to meds. So yes, meds can have negative affects too. I'm definitely not anti-medication but I don't worship meds either. It's important to weed out the snake oil crap that people try to sell us but I don't think we should automatically dismiss something just because it doesn't come in a prescription pill bottle. And I'm not going to automatically trust someone just because he/she is a snotty guy in a lab coat with a fancy degree. Scientists can manipulate data and be biased too. It's not just herbalists. There's a lot of politics in science with funding and everything so who knows what they're doing behind closed doors? I'm not knocking on all scientists, just saying that there are bad apples in every bunch. Many scientists do great work but they are not gods. Even though medicines can benefit many people it doesn't take away from the fact that pharmaceutical companies do like to make lots of $$$$$. So I think it's important to look at everything with a critical eye. That includes both pharmaceutical and non-pharmaceutical treatments.

I do think your quest to find hard research is a good thing

but I think maybe you could expand your worldview a bit instead of dismissing something just because it's not being promoted by rich people in lab coats. To be honest I think that attitude is kind of snotty and I'm not even a hard core herbal proponent. Sorry if I'm being tactless or harsh now.

scarygreengiant38453.2829513889