ADHD & IQ | ADHD Information
ADHD does not equal low IQ. I would get a second opinion. When I was tested in the 80s and they were still trying to determine exactly what ADD was (they called it hyperactivity back then) I went through a series of tests, not just IQ tests, to determine my ability and the extent of my focus.
Cheekydeeky
ha what an unfair test!!!they did that to my eldest and i made them redo it once he had been on his meds for while.he whent from the lower end of the scores right to the top..he scored in the 99% the lady who retested him said he scored higher then her.JayW,
I just wanted to let you know that our son was tested at 4yrs and 9months and his IQ was 99. That was three years ago. He was tested a few weeks ago and diagnosed with ADHD and at that time the psychologist said it was around 82, but not to rely on this number because he was so inattentive. She said that you cannot rely on this in testing when they cannot sit still and are having problems focusing and concentrating. She looked at his academic functioning and it was at his grade level or above and given this she said you cannot rely on the IQ figure. Also your IQ really shouldn't flucuate as his did especially that many points from three years ago. This was another key that he is fine and the test is not reliable given his inattention when testing. I'm sure we both have very smart children it's just that it is too difficult for them to get out what they need to under the conditions of testing. I hope this makes you feel better about the scores. I honestly believe as parents that we know how our children are doing academically and tests sometimes make us second guess our own knowledge.
I agree with everyone else. My son was put in the "LD" class when not on meds. He was only on preschool. When he started meds he was equal to other kids and even excelling the others. He is now 5 going into kindergarden and can read already. Wait to have your son retested until his meds are working well. Also, as long as he is happy and you are happy with him it doesnt matter what the numbers are.The first time my son was tested he tested in the average range.on the WISC, the school psychologist said put him in a small class room setting and he'll be fine, had some attentional issues. 3 months before this he took the stanford 9 and sored in the 99% at a different school. He took the WISC in a group, which is not ideal for ADD and ADHD kids. The following year he took the test again this time different psychologist who noticed attentional issues and stopped testing im and asked me to bring him back to be tested alone, he tested 99.9 .
If I were you I would request to have your son tested alone, you have that right. Many of these kids test low because of the inattention, so frustrating.
Good Luck!
A psychiatrist is telling us that our son, recently diagnosed with ADHD, has a very low IQ as well (89). I fail to see how he can be fairly tested for IQ when suffering from ADHD. Has anyone had a similar experience. We do not believe that his IQ is so low and plan to have him tested again after some time on meds for ADHD.I would definitely have him retested. I have found the hard way that you almost always need a second opinion. Of course, you're right in that he can't possibly take a test and do well without medication. Its just a fact of life. Good luck!!!
I had the same exact problem. We switched schools that has alot more help with this problem. At the time he was tested, dr, changed med. and the weren't working. I had him retested while on a different med and iq is fine. Although he does have fine motor skill problems which make it hard 4 anyone to read handwriting he mentally capable of doing work , not phisically. This was part of the reason why test showed iq low.
Good luck
Does your son have a decent vocabulary and an interest in what is going on around him? Does he seem to learn quickly and be able to learn a great deal if the subject interests him? Basically, does he seem much smarter than the 89 IQ score suggests?
There are many things which can lower an IQ score and ADHD is definitely one of them. Once he is on meds and you see them working properly, go ahead and have him retested. When my son was tested, he scored in the normal range but the evaluator himself told me it was much lower because of the ADD and that it is common for that to happen. He actually is using that to try to coerce me into putting my son on meds!
Until you have it done, keep a close eye on the services and accommodations the school is offering him to make sure they aren't lowering their expectations and thus denying him a FAPE based on the one IQ test. As long as you are comfortable with the education he is getting, the numbers don't really matter.
I hope this gives you some comfort and encouragement. The important thing is that your son learns and is happy with who he is! In the end, numbers are only numbers and as long as they aren't used to deny him an education, they don't count for much in the long run. Barb
IQ tests can be inaccurate. Often kids test differently at different times, even if they don't have other things going on. If they have a stomach ache that day,a nd doesn't feel well enough to pay attention, he can score lower than his ability. Since 89 is still consiered average (90-100 is average) I wouldn't even worry about it. If he has attentional issues, I do believe it will be harder to get a true IQ, and to me the Achievement Tests tell more about what the child is learning anyways. As a kid, who had definite anxiety problems (to the extent that I'd scream in school, in front of my peers), mood problems, and definite ADHD, my own IQ's tested from 90-120. The best way to get a good reading to potential, with strengths and weaknesses outlined, is to have a neuropsych test the child. We found some serious learning disabilities that way, and now they're being attended to at school. They also accomodate my son's short attention span. Please don't read too much into this IQ test. (((Hugs)))
Lucas, almost 11, bipolar/ADHD, Lithibod, Topomax, Seroquel (stable, but still a bit fidgety)
Bush has 90 and he made it to president....
The majority of ADHD kids are found to have above-average IQs, they just test badly. If he can excel at what holds his attention I'd ignore the test results. I tested badly when I didn't feel like working at it and well when I did. I made a 99 on a school test at age 11 and an alert teacher noticed that I excelled in areas of interest so she coerced (bribed) me to do my best and I went up by 88 points on a MENSA test at age 13 (I don't trust that one any more than the others). Now that I'm older and more motivated I've taken many different tests and it varies by 30 points depending on how well I can concentrate that day. Most ADHD kids are geniuses, you have to be with that many brain wires, but they won't believe it and won't care even if it's proven to them, because they still feel different and weird and stupid no matter what the reason. My 9yo granddaughter sometimes can't add 2+2 but the other night my daughter and I were talking about the day WWII started and my granddaughter heard us and she said, "Wow! That's older than you two put together!". She was quiet a minute and then she said, "Yep! By 12 years! So what's for supper?" I looked at her mother and said, "Did you get that? Is she right?" She said, "I don't know, I can't even remember all the numbers!". So I went over it in my head and the kid was right! But sometimes she honestly can't add 2 and 2. How can you possibly do an accurate IQ test on that kind of mind? These are usually very intelligent kids. Our doc, a behavioral ped, said the ONLY thing that IQ tests measure is the ability to take an IQ test! I tend to be with him on that. Through the last 4 years of going through testing and CPSE and CSE with our daughter , we always hear her IQ is too high to have a problem. But this doc said IQ has NOTHING to do with ADHD or anything else, just the ability to function in a testing environment. Get a second opinion right away. Don't y'all just wish there could be some uniformity of knowledge .....it seems as if you get 10 different answers if you ask 10 different people.
I don't think IQ should be used to determine anything with ADHD or whether a child deserves help. When I was younger I was too intelligent so I was told I didn't have a problem and recieve no help at all. The thinking was if you're smart and not behaving or getting good grades then your just a bad kid.
I remember junior year in High School being forced to sit for hours and take the SAT's. It was absolutely excruciating for me. I was uncomfortable, frustrated and felt like an idiot. Half way through each section I would just give up and fill in circles so I could get out of there. Of course my scores came back and were horrible. I think 860 combined something terrible like that so my parents were really pissed and my college options were severely limited.
We first rested our son when he was 4.5 yrs old. His IQ was 117. We have had him retested each yr. He is now 6.5 yrs old and his IQ is 118. The drs have said that is a conservative number since when they did the testing, he was still having attention issues.
If you find yourself thinking, "How can that be? He/She seems so intelligent," then you are probably right and the test is probably wrong. Go with your instinct. My son was also tested with a low IQ, but the doctor even said, "I would assume it wasn't accurate since he kept commenting on the sounds and events around him." I'm not sure that those using the tests believe in them!
My son is on the autism spectrum. At school he consistently tested around 75 for IQ (that's right--75). Privately, with a NeuroPsych, he tested 107. He acts much more 107 than 75. Some kids with certain LD's and sensory issues, however, can have iQ's of 130 and still need LD classrooms, small classes and aides. The IQ level doesn't equal being able to perform in a regular class setting. It all depends on what's wrong with the child, how well he can block out outside stimuli, how well he can learn auditorily, how much 1-1 attention he needs, etc. I have a 9 year old daughter, IQ around 118, who is in LD. She has an auditory processing problem that is quite severe so she spends half a day in LD. She is not "dumb" or "slow", but she was not picking things up in the normal classroom setting. She's doing very well where she is.Hi,
My son's psycholgist says that children with ADD are supposed to score low on IQ tests in spite of having great intelligence. Many of the problems on the test involve concentration, and the "gaps" in some of the areas tested are a sure sign of ADD, but they do not reflect a child's actual IQ.
Hope this helps.
I agree that the test could be innacurate. IQ tests vary, and also there is the issue of how skilled the tester is. I just skimmed a book called Different Minds, and it talks about how much the results of different IQ tests can vary - even with competant testers. Koko38798.5140856481take a look at the other scores such as the verbal and the performance ( also called non-verbal)...then look at the working memory and processing speed...kids with ADHD typically have lower processing speed and this pulls down the full scale IQ....Oh, I forgot to add that when we had our son tested, the doctor also said before he started the testing that depression can pull the score down by as much as 10 points. Makes sense, really.My son is 16 and just tested by the school with an IQ of 89. It was much higher in Kindergarten because at that age they didn't add the processing speed. The poor kids processing speed is at 1%.
He is VERY verbal, and his verbal IQ score is 108. His writing came out in the gifted range at 140! The school doesn't consider his IQ accurate, but are also not qualifying him for an LD. 
I want to have him tested privately to hopefully get a more accurate scoring.poodles, obviouly the full scale IQ in not accurate for your son especially with the processing speed being so low and the 140 gifted range score...I have seen some charts that give a better estimate of IQ that do not factor in the processing speed...I just haven't figured out how they work yet
What test was used that gives an IQ score in the writing area?
Since processing issues pull down scores of some of the subtests and the overal IQ, it makes sense to look at the various tests administered to understand the individual and not place so much emphasis on the end score.poodledoodles,
I was wondering how you have been and what's up. I still do not understand how the school can see his processing is 1%ile and still not qualify him for LD. Do they need to have an IQ score which they will accept? Why won't they accept the IQ score again? What are their recommendations. As far as private testing, who pays for that if the school says that their IQ score is inaccurate? Are you in a large or small district? Many years ago I worked for LAUSD and also Ventura SD.
I posted this on another thread, but I thought I would copy it and post it here, too:
A couple of things to keep in mind about IQ scores:
The scores vary, and they can vary by a pretty large degree. People like to think that IQ scores are innate and stay the same, as each year passes. This is far from true. Adequate or inadequate remediation for an LD can cause very significant changes in IQ scores, causing the scores to go up (adequate remediations) or down (inadequate remediations--scores falling because of inadequate remediations are called "The Matthew Effect" in Special Education).
It's a good idea to give the same IQ test over a period of years to see if remediation is working. Before my son was remediated for dyslexia and received private Orton-Gillingham tutoring, his phonological processing score was 76; after three years of remediation and a year of Orton-Gillingham, his phonological processing score rose to 120. His achievement scores show that he still cannot apply it worth a flip, but the knowledge is in his head. That's a huge step.
There are different types of IQ tests. Some are verbal and some are nonverbal and some are a combination of the two. Schools are limited in the type and amount of IQ tests they give. The schools may only have three or four from which to choose, whereas a neuorpsychologist will have every kind imaginable. A child may do significantly better on one type of IQ test than another, depending on the child's disability. If you take your child to a neuropsychologist and your child bottoms out on an IQ test, the neuropsychologist may well give a different test to see if your child does better.
A child's score on an IQ test can be greatly influenced by anxiety, depression, and inattention.
IQ scores are averaged. A very low score in a particular subsection of the test can bring the scores down significantly. When you assess the scores, you need to look for this. In Special Education, it is called a scatter.
In the end, it's just a test. All it measures is how well your child did on that day, at that particular time, in that particular setting, with that particular test administrator. It isn't a constant or an absolute.
The test administrator can make all the difference, not only in the actual administering of the test but, also, in the interpretation. This is why I think it is sooooo important to find a well-respected private evaluator to evaluate a child. It's expensive, but it is an investment in your child's future.
[QUOTE=joemom]poodles, obviouly the full scale IQ in not accurate for your son especially with the processing speed being so low and the 140 gifted range score...I have seen some charts that give a better estimate of IQ that do not factor in the processing speed...I just haven't figured out how they work yet
What test was used that gives an IQ score in the writing area?
[/QUOTE]
He took the Woodcock-Johnson III. He didn't qualify for an LD because his other achievement scores were high enough, so there was only an 11 point scatter between his full scale IQ,, and any of the achievement tests. I imagine if he had an accurate IQ test, that there would be a much large point difference. There are huge point differences between the different achievement tests, as much as 62 points, but they only use the scatter between the full scale IQ and the achievement tests.
poodledoodles38800.5991782407JayW.Just my two cents as someone who has administered IQ tests tests: You've gotten some great feedback here. Have the child re-tested (preferably when the ADHD is better controlled.) Those tests are far from perfect, and even when given under the best of circumstances are supposed to be a predictor of CURRENT ABILITY NOT THE CHILD'S POTENTIAL. This means that if certain factors (like ADHD) keep the child from doing well it does not necessarily mean that they will not be capable of doing better in the future. Things like attention, illness, anxiety, boredom, and poor relationship with the person doing the testing can effect performance. These tests are given as part of the assesment for ADHD to rule out learning disabilities, but you need to look at more than the overall score. The scores on the different sub-tests are important in themselves. Relative weakness in certain groups of sub-tests can be a clue that a child has a learning disability or ADHD
Also, a score of 89 is NOT considered very low. An score suggesting "average" intelligence ranges between 85 and 115. If your son's scores do not improve you can still be re-assured that he is within the "normal" range.
Well it’s over, I lost. No IEP. I should have gotten an advocate. I feel I was scammed. Last time we had the meeting, they acted like they were going to work with me. Probably to keep me happy, so I wouldn’t go get an advocate. This time is was like 6 against 1. They spouted how My son gets A’s and B’s, and past the state exam needed to graduate, how he was ahead of where he should be in finished classes, and could most likely graduate early. Even though I read his text books for three years, went to summer school every year since 1st grade, used up all his electives to get enough credit, works from morning to night, and some weekends too, and the list goes on. They didn’t care about his areas of weakness at all. I decided it wasn’t worth fighting for the little I was asking for. I can do them on my own. It would have just been nice to have some help for a change. I’ve done it all myself up until now, so guess I will just carry on the same.
I could have refused, gotten an advocate, used up months of time and money, and by the time things would be settled, it would be time for him to graduate. If I had already had an advocates advice and support, I might have went for it. I don’t know enough about all this education lingo to get by. I feel very defeated, an want to cry. Months of work for practically nothing. They ar going to have an OT access him, but no services. They’ll just tell me how to help him. They gave me pamphlets on who to contact about getting help with getting a job, and info on college, that’s it. Basically nothing. I’m going to go cry now.
I am so shocked....and hardly know what to say... I thought that you didn't post last night because you were out celebrating. It seemed so clear and obvious that there is a need if you look at the test scores. It is so hard to accept that they seem to base their decision for help on his ability to pass a state exam and his grades, which were the result of ten times the hard work that the average kid does...and a mom who was doing the work they should have done.
I agree with you that it could take until the time for him to graduate to appeal and continue a fight. Meanwhile precious time slips by. If the OT finds in the accessment that the scores are severly low, why wouldn't that necessitate OT services? Why do they deny them before he has been evaluated?
I am so sorry.
Regards,
jfla
It may be that our meeting on Monday will have the same result.
jfla238806.6715972222[QUOTE=jfla2]I am so shocked....and hardly know what to say... I thought that you didn't post last night because you were out celebrating. It seemed so clear and obvious that there is a need if you look at the test scores. It is so hard to accept that they seem to base their decision for help on his ability to pass a state exam and his grades, which were the result of ten times the hard work that the average kid does...and a mom who was doing the work they should have done.
I agree with you that it could take until the time for him to graduate to appeal and continue a fight. Meanwhile precious time slips by. If the OT finds in the assessment that the scores are severely low, why wouldn't that necessitate OT services? Why do they deny them before he has been evaluated?
I am so sorry.
Regards,
jfla
It may be that our meeting on Monday will have the same result.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your caring. It is much appreciated. They said right off that they would access him for sensory issues, but that he doesn't qualify for SPED regardless. He would probably need a "sensory diet" at home. His grades are too good to use the AD/HD under OHI. I would love to have my son evaluated by a private person for ld's, but it would have to be up to my son, and he has been fighting me on this the whole time to begin with. He doesn't want to accept that he needs help. He will have to figure it out on his own now. 
I'm just soo tired. I also have Lupus, and the stress has been murder on me. I broke out in a Lupus rash last week. I hadn't had one of those in years! I haven't been getting enough sleep either working on this. So what's the point if my son is going to fight me on everything. There's not much I can do when he's almost 17.
Jfla2, I really hope your meeting on Monday goes well, and everything works out for you. I will send prayers, and good thoughts your way! Let me know how it turns out. Hopefully , better than mine.
They said right off that they would access him for sensory issues, but that he doesn't qualify for SPED regardless. He would probably need a "sensory diet" at home. He doesn't want to accept that he needs help.
[/QUOTE]What does "access him for sensory issues" mean?
Do they have a program for a "sensory diet" at home? could you clarify please?
I can understand how he doesn't want to accept help. Ds often says I'm okay, I don't need it. (Whatever issue "it" happens to be.) partly it's because I am the mom with suggestions, he wants to be independent, and he does not necessarily understand all that is involved in why it takes so long to complete homework. Altho your ds is not interested now, when you are not so focused on him like you have been, he may be ready to try some new strategies out to use in the future.
It looks clearly like your body is telling you to take a break and take care of yourself for a change. I am sorry that you are having to deal with a Lupus flare up like this. Get some rest and pamper yourself. You deserve it.
They're going to check all his sensory stuff like, visual integration, fine motor, you know: seeing, earing, tasting smelling, feeling, that stuff. OT's can do therapy to help coordinate all the sense together like they should be, or at least help them some. That could be the problem with his hand writing. Then they give them a "sensory diet", I think as in exercises to manipulate the senses to do some work to sort of wake them up I guess? Not sure all what it involves. They will set up the test for next week. I understand why kids think they are fine. It's because that's all they have ever known. My son has had a terrible problem with sensitivity to textured foods, and different smells. He thinks it's normal because he's always been that way. He knows his hand writing is bad, because he can compare it to someone else's, not so with taste, and smell. He can't "taste" what other people taste, or smell. all the school recommended was extra time for tests, and to use a computer for word processing.
I'm trying to get an OT( his handwriting is elementary school looking, perception, and sensory difficulties), tutoring in reading and spelling, and transitional services. poodledoodles38800.8317824074
It's hard to believe that a school psychologist would not not suggest further testing or something to help the needs of your son. amazing
We are interested in similar help for our ds. An OT will be at our MDT meeting and the psych wants to have the transition specialist present too. I really don't expect the school to do much about reading,but dh and I have talked about getting some help from a reading specialist to help determine what strategies could be used to increase his reading fluency. I am not clear exactly what part of
the reading process cause his fluency score to be so low. I've been looking at a reading software program that is geared for LD, adhd, dyslexic which might be helpful as a reading and study aid but I'm not keen on using it in a hit or miss way...
Sorry I rambled on
jfla238800.9433217593I doesn't surprise me. If they suggested more testing they would be admitting that something was wrong. They are quite happy to suggest he has no LD, so they have nothing to pay for. There will be an OT, and Transitional specialist at our meeting too. I'm not expecting too much from them.
I will keep my fingers crossed, and hope for the best. I hope things go well for you too, and feel free to ramble on. jfla2, how old is your child?poodledoodles38801.3976388889The reason we did private testing at first was becasue we were in a
rush to get an application in for extra time at college board. Had i
started the process earlier, I probably would have been fighting to get
him tested because they would not see the need. Just getting the 504
was hard going about it thinking the school was giving me all straight
answers. We also paid for the alphamart ourselves because I saw that
he needed it right then and if I went the school route i might spend a
long time and still not get it. Your son's writing score at 140 is just amazing. Once he gets some assistance and strategies I would expect him to realize more of his potential and do great things.
I started looking at the WYNN Wizard program and will install a demo soon. Have you looked at Kurzweil 3000? Both seem like great programs that could help our kids. Colleges often have them available at their student disability offices.
I just found this which I think is interesting to keep in mind:
"Assistive technology is most effective if it accentuates an individual's strengths and minimizes areas of need. Selecting appropriate technology for an individual should take into account the individual's learning profile, the tasks and functions to be performed, the specific technology, and the contexts of use (Raskin, 1998). For example, word processors with text-to-speech, outlining, word prediction, and speech recognition capabilities offer assistive capabilities depending on a person's specific disabilities. Technology is like any other tool: The challenge is to find the technology applications that work best for the individual and learn how to use them. This takes an investment of time and money, but the payoff can be increased productivity and creativity (Malouf,"
Best of Luck to you and your son
When's the meeting?Our meeting is next Thursday, March 30. I don't know what an Kurzweil 3000 is. My son does most of his work on the computer at home. He will probably need a lap top for college, and I would like to find something that has math keys to do Algebra, and Geometry, but not do it for them. I looked a graphing calculators, but they do the work for them. I also talked to his Biology teacher who said they are nice if you already know how to do the problems, but shouldn't use one if you are just learning. So now I am back to square one.
How old is your child?
My son is almost 17.5 and is in eleventh grade. He uses a computer for all of his work except for math.As you probably know I have been searching for an easy way to digitally take math notes and homework without much satisfactory success. There is math writing software, but it is cumbersome to use. Some people suggest using Excel for algebra. Geometer's Sketchpad (Win) may be an option for Geometry. I've contacted numerous people at gov't subsidized offices for student disability services, special ed supervisors, schl dist. tech support, software companies, Texas Insptruments, math curriculum specialists, ot specialists and the list goes on. The school psych said I probably have more info than anyone he knows. I've been compiling a list. I'll post it when I get it together.
I would like to see software that would run on an alphasmart (PalmOS) where you could type notes and use the stylus to tap on different numbers, symbols etc. Most of the software seems to have too many drop down menus that slow the process down. There is software that you can try out demos and see if your ds likes it. My ds doesn't see the need for this now because he is getting notes and his math handwriting is better than alphabet. I look down the road and because he plans on majoring in math I want him to develop presentable skills.
jfla238801.7963657407View online Kurzweil 3000 demo:
http://www.kurzweiledu.com/k3000demo/ (it is very expensive)
Similar product:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/LSG/products/wynn.asp (less expensive)
Nice to find people with children the about the same age as mine. Most here have younger ones. Mine is 16 1/2 and a junior in HS. Did you wait year to send your son to school? I kinda wish I had, but who knows, maybe it wouldn't have made much difference. My son needs something for math now, but I just don't know of any. I will check out some of your suggestions.
Let me know if you find anything good for math processing, but that doesn't calculate it for them. poodledoodles38801.5288888889Yes I held ds back one year. He really was not ready at that point, he would have been a young kdgner. Six mos later, i could see he was ready. As it turned out his best buddies (twins) started kdg a year before he did and now as seniors will be taking a year off before starting college because they are not mature enough and have recently found out that they too have exec. funct. problems. Their mom is trying to figure out what type of program to do for the next year.I copied a list from "I'm so discouraged" in the school section.
Take a look at MathType They have a 30 day downloadable demo which is similar to most math writing software.
TI Interactive! by Texas Instruments was recommended by a math curriculum specialist.
The TI Voyage 200 graphing calculator used in conjunction with the TI Keyboard might be helpful in the future (has Geometers Sketchpad too) when a graphing calulator is not an issue to use.
I know this is long, but it is easier to copy and paste it all. i hope you may find some of this interesting. Here is my list of what I've found out as of ~Jan. 28:
Article related to Excel/dysgraphia:
http://www.ldonline.org/bulletin_boards/techtalk/babbitt& ;woo dward.html
Excel:
It certainly can do everything your son needs as I far as understand it. The one limitation in Excel is the amount of text that can be entered into a cell. However that can be extended by merging cells. If that is not sufficient, a text box can be placed on the worksheet which allows unlimited text.
MathType
Design Science MathType™ for Windows and Macintosh is a powerful interactive tool that will revolutionize the way you create print and web-based documents that contain math. MathType works with any word processor, presentation program, page layout program, HTML-authoring tool, plus other types of software, to create equations for research papers, class materials, web pages, slide presentations, journal articles and books.
http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/
Mathcad
Mathcad’s features are specially suited to learning and teaching technical subjects in high school, vocational education, and college. That’s why more educators and students rely on Mathcad for calculation and documentation in math-related disciplines than any other desktop software. You and your students can:
• Type math equations just as you would write them
• Combine text, images, graphs and equations all on the same page
• Post your files on the Web
• Automatically update calculations
• Utilize built-in functions and solvers to tackle a vast array of applied problems
• Convert between unit systems
• Visualize data with 2D and 3D graphs
• Carry out both numeric and symbolic processes
• Program custom functions
http://education.mathsoft.com/
Abacus Math Writer
MathWriter is a stand-alone program that allows for the production of Mathematical, Scientific and Engineering equations and formulae. Schoolteachers and Lecturers will find MathWriter useful for producing notes, reports, and test papers.
The program is designed so that an expression may be written on the screen, and then translated into a bitmap image of required size. The image may then be subsequently imported to a Microsoft Word document as a "picture" or incorporated into a Web Page as an Image.
http://www.jpowered.com/mathwriter/
Virtual Pencil Algebra
http://www.hentermath.com/vpalgebra.asp
Palm OS software -
CplxCalPro: The most powerful calculator for the palm 3.30
While this calculator is not necessarily designed just to balance your checkbook, you could easily do so. CplxCalPro allows you to perform the most advanced calculations and function graphing without any programming. Instead of retyping the same equations with just a few different values you can create a little program. The manual contains a step-by-step tutorial with programming examples. No programming experiance is needed to follow the basic programming examples.
Renaissance Learning/Alphasmart:
The powerOne Graph program is a third party software application, so we cannot support it. Perhaps the developer (Infinity Softworks) could direct you to some suggestions. I also searched around and found another application called ImagiMath, here is a link to their site:
http://www.imagiworks.com/Pages/Products/ImagiMath.html
The Dana will not support an external calculator.
There is indeed a product that we sell that offers graphical calculator functions called Power One Graph. Here is a link to a website describing the product: http://www.infinitysw.com/products/poweronegraph.h tml Our sales department would be able to give you a price on the product. You can call us at 1-800-338-4204 for more information.
Math Specialist:
I'm not that familiar with Palm software, but the thing that comes immediately to mind is a TI product called TI Interactive. It is a word processor with graphing capability.
I think you can download it from TI for very little.
MacKichan:
Sorry, no. Our products require Windows. I haven't heard of any Palm OS programs.
MacKichan Software, Inc. Scientific Word/WorkPlace/Notebook 5.5
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jflaSenior Member
Joined: 27 October 2005
Posts: 279 Posted: 28 January 2006 at 12:41am | IP Logged
Re: Article listed above at http://www.ldonline.org/bulletin_boards/techtalk/babbitt& ;woo dward.html
I think the following quote by John Woodward, an associate professor in the School of Education at the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Washington sums up the reason we have a problem finding math writing software.
"I think the problem that you face when you look for specialized software for dysgraphia is that there isn't a commercial market for it. However, some word processing programs have mathematical symbols, and professional mathematicians tend to use a special program that enables them to access all kinds of math symbols." -1999
That was six years ago. Now we may have a few more choices.
Thanks for the informative post. I will check out some of the things listed. I did check out the other two you listed, and thought they were really neat. My son liked them, except for the voices. I thought the voices on the Wynn were better, and you had a choice. Actually, I thought the Wynn was cheaper for one, but if a school wanted them, I thought the other would have been a better deal. I ordered a demo copy of both for my sons school. We are on the School Site Council, and they want us to come up with a wish list for the school.
I think if I had held my son back he wouldn't have such a hard time with the work, but then again he is so verbally advanced that he gets board with kids who are younger then he is. He wants to talk about scientific stuff, and they want to talk about girls, and skateboards!
My son doesn't care for the voices either, but if the highlighting might help or if RFB&D cds could be played in sync with the highlighting that would be cool. I did some search on that possibility or maybe it was ebooks but can't remember what I found. (AAHHH) There was another program called Read & Write 8 Gold or something like that which also looked interesting and it may have been around the same price as WYNN.
My ds has always been on the perimeter of social groups, often does not have the quick easy social banter like the other kids. When we moved here in fourth grade his ice breakers were talking about the speed of light squared. 
He too is more interested in discussions about math/science/history /politics. ..and he loves composing/playing the piano. His socializing is pretty limited to school clubs. The hours he spends on homework seriously cut into opportunities to maintain and develop friendships. Recently he seems perfectly happy taking himself out to lunch or taking in a movie by himself. Altho on occasion he may initiate doing something with someone, he is more of a loner and very comfortable with himself.
He got his driver's licence after he was 17 and is a pretty good driver. So he enjoys treating himself by going out to eat/movie. My only concern is that he should be on medication for safety. That is another whole issue which I will save for another time. How about your son and driving?
To bad our sons aren't friends, they sound a lot a like!
My son now likes talking about quantum physics. A friends father got him started on it.
He is in the process of trying to get a chess club started at his Independent Study. That's the only down fall to IS, no school clubs. He doesn't drive yet. He's in the process of trying to get another job to pay for a car, gas, and insurance. I'm hoping he'll have one before summer, so he can take drivers ed this summer. I do worry how his attention will play a role in his driving. We're in S. Calif. poodledoodles38801.8097106482They do sound very similar. That's terrific that he is trying to get a chess club started. Are there any other activities that IS students have done together? What are the reasons that IS kids can't do clubs? It seems as though it could be a benefit to all. At my daughter's high school there was one girl on her soccer team that they pulled in to be keeper and she went to a private school or something, but could play on the team because she lived in that high school's area. I understand your concerns about driving depending on the area you live in. Until ten years ago I had always lived in the LA area. Now when I go back, the congestion seems worse than I remember. Ds got a permit at 15 1/2 but I was not keen on him getting a license until after 17. I really think that there is a lot of maturity and neural connections made during that time.
Speaking of LA ds is at Disneyland this weekend on a Jazz Choir trip. This is the 4th school related trip that he has gone on this year and each time he comes back more mature. (Last year there was a fiasco with losing his cell phone in the Disneyland parking lot...but some how he ended up with getting five free Disney passports!) This is the second time he will be managing his meds on a trip, so it will be interesting to find out how that went...if I do.
IS doesn't have clubs because the kids all come on their own schedule, coming different days, and different days. Also takes money to pay a teacher to chaperon. I will be the chaperon, so it won't take any money or time from the school. We will have it outside at the lunch tables, 1 day a week, for 2 hours. I don't play chess, and will be quite board, but I am doing it for my son, so he can meet other kids, and have another interest besides he computer.
Hello, I am new here and finding everyones discussions fascinating. I have an 8 year old wonderful son who was diagnosed 2 years ago with ADHD. He was tested at 6 with an IQ of 138 with out meds. We tried Concerta for the last 2 years ranging from 18 mgs. to 54 mgs. more recently. I have read books and try and get as much info as I can about it because I am still having a hard time "getting it". We are trying Adderall 20 mgs. now as I found the Concerta to be the opposite of what we were looking for in a med. He was a zombie and seemed depressed. I hated the effect it had on him and couldnt wait for the weekend so I did not have to give it to him and he could eat and catch up on his sleep and be his normal self (normal to the rest of us who know him). We just moved across the country and now in a new school where they dont seem interested in wanting to help, I am considering home schooling for the rest of this year to see how we do. Any suggestions?
Hey poodledoodles!Good Luck tomorrow!
When you have a chance, take a look at a trial program of TI Interactive!
Abacus MathWriter is an older simpler version of mathwriting software. you might want to see that too. Susieb got that for her boy.
Best of Luck!
jfla238805.039537037Thanks sooo much! That is really sweet that you remembered! I am really dreading this meeting, and my head is swimming with all this info I have had to learn!
Thanks again! I will let you know what happens after the meeting. I am sure you will do great. As educators it is their responsibility to figure out what will meet his needs. I'm sending good thoughts your way!Regards,
jfla2
My son had an IQ test when he was 4 and in preschool. He also scored a 90. I was very upset about this. I talked to another psychatrist who looked at everything and told me it has to be wrong. Jeffrey scored in the top 92% for vocabulary for his age which is inconsistent with that IQ. He had ODD and was going through a stage where he would fight me about going to sleep, and would wind up going to school sleepy. They are going to retest him when he is in 3rd grade. I am hoping that we will finally have the right diagnosis and be on the right meds.
Karen R
[QUOTE=jfla2]Since processing issues pull down scores of some of the subtests and the overal IQ, it makes sense to look at the various tests administered to understand the individual and not place so much emphasis on the end score.
poodledoodles,
I was wondering how you have been and what's up. I still do not understand how the school can see his processing is 1%ile and still not qualify him for LD. Do they need to have an IQ score which they will accept? Why won't they accept the IQ score again? What are their recommendations. As far as private testing, who pays for that if the school says that their IQ score is inaccurate? Are you in a large or small district? Many years ago I worked for LAUSD and also Ventura SD.
[/QUOTE]
They don't consider the IQ score accurate because the processing is sooo low. I am in a large district in S. Calif. The school already did their test. They're not required to do any ore. I will have to pay for a private test myself.
I have been o.k., but I have another IEP meeting to get ready for, so I have been doing a lot of reading, and writing letters and such.
Our school won't even test my son. They said it wouldn't be very accurate.
My daughter got tested and she scored 91. They said her cognitive and academic scores were close the same--so they said no learning disability. We got her privately tested and she has dyslexia and processing probs. She has no auditory memory.
Holly, who found the Dyslexia in your son? Just curious. I want to have my son further tested for dyslexia too. Our schools testing for Dyslexia is so minimal. I believe as long as you request testing, and he is having some difficulties, they have to test him. Lillian would know.poodledoodles38800.6232291667poodledoodles,thanks for explaining the results of testing and how it pertains to your son again. Considering your son's problems, what are the district's recommendations for helping your son?
IQ test only measure one type of intelligence anyway. Supposedly your IQ score helps determine your ability to learn. It goes without saying that if you have a learning disability you will score lower on this test. Scoring low or high on the test still give little indication of how "smart" someone is.
I know of 3 types of intelligence that when added together determine how smart a person is. There is standard IQ (ability to learn), social IQ (social skills), common sense (street smarts).
I think most people are lacking in one of these areas. For example I have a high standard IQ but a amazingly low social IQ. I have friends who are book smart (standard IQ) but have no common sense. Like wise I have friends that are street smart but sit them in a classroom and they will fail. Everyone of those examples are of smart people but you have to look at the whole person and not just one aspect to see it.
I think for someone to be "stupid" they'd have to score low in multiple sections of intelliegence not just one.
Hi Jay, my son was tested on medicine he's 12 and he came back with a very low IQ. I wasn't really expecting it to be as low as it was, but it kind of makes sense because he has a learning problem.
89 isn't low, 89 is average.
My son's IQ testing finished out at a 79. This was before meds. Amazingly, that puts him below average, however in 3rd grade, he can read a 5th grade level and do 5th grade spelling words (and get 100%).
I'm sure if there is a condition with your child such as ADHD, it wouldn't surprise me that he would test lower on the IQ test if he wasn't medicated.
If they would retest Dylan now being on meds, I bet his score would have 20 added to it at least.