arbiterxero:
I never said that taking a dim view of one's parents has anything specifically to do with forced Ritalin, et al, medication. THAT you read my post that way shows defensiveness. That is to be expected. However, I am only reporting empirical evidence when I state that some people WILL form a dim view of their parents due to forced medication, when they may not have developed that view otherwise.
Regarding the safety of parents taking Ritalin or other ADD/ADHS medication before giving it to your child: Whatever the risk of gving the stimulant to your child, you as the parent will be exposed to the same risk. So, if you think it is safe for your child, then it must be safe for you too. If you are uncertain about taking the meds yourself:
1) Don't give them to your child, yet
2) Ask your MD to check your heart for any murmurs or other irregularities that might indicate you shouldn't be taking stimulants, such as Ritalin, diet pills, coffee, cocaine, etc. This is kind of heart testing is a wise thing to do anyway.
3) Have the same medical exam done on your child.
4) If your MD tells you your heart is ok, and your child's heart is ok, then it is equally safe for both of you to take the stimulant - it will have exactly the same effect on both of you, dosage adjusted for body weight, of course.
Various medical associations endorse administration of stimulants simply because they often do have the effect desired. To this date, there has been no evidence that ADD/ADHD is a disorder of any kind, and even the "evidence" that it is a difference is scant and questionable. One should aquaint oneself as to what "disorder" actually means in medical jargon. For instance, if your kidneys process your blood more efficiently than mine, but my lesser efficiency was in no way life threatening, would I have a disorder? NO. But by the way the word "disorder" is applied to ADD/ADHD, I would have a kidney disorder. It would be called KPD, Kidney Processing Disorder.
I a peeing contest, I would always loose, because, both of us given the same amount of water to drink, you would fill the pee bucket in a shorter amount of time. You would finish first.
Every aspect of every individual can be mapped to physical phenomenon. When a value judgement is made on those phenomenon, that is called eugenics and racism.
If medical science had any clear idea of what ADD/ADHD is, one would hope they could make a treatment that would be less of a sledge hammer than stimulants. The effects of stimulants on attention have been known since the late 1800's - early 1900's. Stimulants were not developed as a result of research into ADD/ADHD. Rather, stimulants were developed because it was discovered that they gave advantage, and that some people liked them.
Whether you think you have ADD/ADHD, or whether it is a real, physical phenomenon at all, Ritalin et al are still stimulants, like speed, and have the same effect on those taking them, whether the person is diagnosed as having the "disorder" or not.
That is the crux of my point. The stimulants effect all people the same, although some people will show variations in the effect, and some people will like them and some won't. If you LIKE the stimulants, it will be next to impossible for you to form a negative opinion of them, usually regardless of any short or long term negative consequences. The lower brain, where the stimulants give pleasure, will usually over rule the mind. Everyone is basically brainwashed by anything that gives pleasure, or pain for that matter. You may think you like wine, that you find it's taste enlivening and cultered. WRONG! What is really going on is the lower brain, which is pleasured by the alcohol, causes the mind to create the rationalizations needed to re-aquire the wine, and more so when under stress, because the stress chases away certain neurotransmitters and other brain chemicals that alcohol can replace. If there was no alcohol in wine, it would be no more popular than juice or vinegar.
It is best to not lie to oneself while going through life - there are far too many other people who will lie to you. Stimulants are stimulants are stimulants.
For a little more clarity on the matter: if all the students in a class, both those who are considered normal and those considered ADD/ADHD, were given the same dose of Ritalin, they would all show improvements in learning and test scores, and the relative difference between the students with the highest grades and those suspected of ADD/ADHD would remain the same as before the administration of the stimulant. Stimulants allow anyone to do better at goal oriented tasks.
For this same reason, German troops in WW2 were given methamphetamine, most notably in the Battle of the Bulge. It is alleged that American troops were given meth also, but I personally have not been able to confirm this. In fact, it is because the Nazi Germans were so fond of speed that illegal speed made in kitchens is often referred to as Nazi speed. These homebrewers follow the same simple recipe used by the Nazis. Try typing "Nazi speed" into Google.
So, take your stimulants if you must, but don't kid yourself. And don't think for a second you won't pay a price. There are no free lunches, and all energy must be conserved, meaning an increase in one area HAS TO have a decrease in another. That is a principal of physics that can't be ignored.
To read up on the dangers of stimulants, especially Ritalin, go to www.ritalindeath.com. There are undispsuted, verifyable medical records in the filing cabinets and on the hard disks of local, state and federal agencies, wherin the cause of death is listed as Ritalin or other stimulant medication. Also, read up on the shrinkage of the brain caused by chronic stimulant exposure.
Good luck
abysslooksback38479.5350810185
Hi Kim,
My son (also 10) currently takes 2 Concerta every day. When we first started it - the doctor also had him take 1 Clondin late afternoon to get him through the evening. All it did was knock him out - literally. He was totally drugged. It sickened me. Then he reduced it to a 1/2 - same thing. Then he dried 1/2 ritalin but then my boy couldn't sleep at night so then he added something else (I can't think of what it was called). I didn't like it though because I felt like I was giving my son an "upper" to get his homework done and then a "downer" to get him to sleep. I could just invision this going down a path to drugs later in his life. When I did take him off that he had a hard time getting to sleep on his own for a few nights and kept claiming he needed the other medication to get to sleep which made me realize my thinking had been correct in taking him off that. So now, we just do the homework battle. I figure it is better than seeing my son doped up - I just hated it and it didn't seem right. I'd rather do homework battles. The 2 concerta work awesome for him during the day. This year has been his most successful year at school. He has FRIENDS! He is doing well in class!
Why don't you try some other approach rather than drugs. There is virtually no evidence that ADD is an actual brain disorder, and worse, some of the research claiming to have found the "proof" has been exposed as fraudulent!
The differences in attention span and activity level called ADD/ADHD are a normal variation of the human species, just as is height and hair color.
Furthermore, the child's total environment, which includes the home and the parents, has been known to cause the inattention and hyperactivity.
When a child is not payng attetntion to his schoolwork, or other activity that others, not the child, wants him/her to pay attention to, the question is:
Is the child's mind blank, or is the child's mind filled with all kinds of other thoughts? It is extremely rare for the mind to be blank, that is, to have stopped thinking. Meditators spend years trying to achieve the blank mind.
So the question has to be asked - what is the child thinking about?
If the child is distressed in any way, it is likely he/she is dwelling or ruminating on that which is distressing. similarly, the child may be daydreaming, which is a pleasurable escape from current distress, analgous to an alcoholic drinking to ease the pain and forget.
Children may hide their distress, or deny they are distressed. That is human nature. So it takes a keen insight to know if distress is the issue.
But then, if the parents are causing the distress, either by ommission or commision, then they may not be able to see that they are, for reasons of pride and denial.
Divorce, for instance, or a palpable absence of love between mother and father usually causes a child distress, which can mainfest as ADD.
I suggest parents themselves take the Ritalin or Adderall or whatever is being prescribed for their child before they administer the drug to their child, so that they know exactly how these drugs feel.
Many children report they hate the way the drugs make them feel.
Also, by drugging your children, you run the risk of violating that bond of protection that is part of the normal child's experience. I know adults who were forced to take Ritalin as children who now have a very dim view of their parents.
Have you talked to any of the educators at a learning center, such as Sylvan?
Good Luck
Although some media coverage questions the validity of the AD/HD diagnosis, medical professional groups such as the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP), and American Medical Association (AMA) have recognized the strong scientific evidence for this disorder. “AD/HD is one of the best-researched disorders in psychiatry, and the overall data on its validity are far more compelling than for most mental disorders and even many medical conditions,” according to the American Medical Association Council on Scientific Affairs.2
Multiple studies have been conducted to discover the cause of the disorder. The exact causes of AD/HD remain elusive, but research indicates that at least three separate yet interactive brain regions have been associated with the condition. Research also clearly indicates that AD/HD tends to run in families. More than 20 genetic studies have shown evidence that the disorder is largely an inherited, neurologically-based condition. AD/HD is a complex trait, and complex traits are typically the result of multiple interacting genes. Problems in parenting or life situations may make AD/HD better or worse, but they do not cause the disorder.
Without early identification and appropriate treatment, AD/HD can have serious consequences that include school failure and drop out, depression, conduct disorder, failed relationships, underachievement in the workplace, and substance abuse. When appropriately treated, persons with AD/HD can lead productive and satisfying lives.
There are alot of adults in general that have a very dim view of their parents, making the suggestion that it applies specifically to ritalin kids is a tad presumptuous.abyss:
computers don't lie. every computer has a number unique to itself. You are a nut job. You need help that none of us can give you. We are not going to buy any of your crap you have on your web site. But I am willing to add a little spice to the issue: There is not evidence that witchcraft is real. Infact, I think it is all fake. There, I said it. Sorry to hurt your feelings, an eye for an eye. you can say what ever you want about me or anyone else here. You are entitled to you own opinion. But then again so are we. You are going about it the WRONG way. We don't need to be criticized for how we each deal with our add/adhd. What the hell makes you such an expert? Did you go to college? If so, what was your degree in? Are you a doctor? If you don't answer these questions, then that says it, you have NO experience in the field of add/adhd or any l.d.'s. So, with that said, anyone can find information that says they are not "real" disorders. Well, I can back it up. I can find just that, information that these are indeed "real" disorders. So, why don't you just agree to disagree and move on. If you have nothing to share or offer about adhd/add or l.d.'s, then you need to find a forum that is all about what your beliefs are. We in this forum, all choose differ ways to help with add/adhd.
so, KANDY, please give it a rest. I think it is obvious that you don't want to help or share. All you do is argue and push your beliefs on us. Put a period on it and move on. You say potato and we say patoto. Get over it.
GO AWAY IF YOU CANNOT BE NICE. YOU NEED TO FIND A NEW PLACE TO TRY AND BULLY. WE WILL NOT BUY ANYTHING YOU ARE SELLING.
Nightowl:
Ahh, the defensive and resentful always betray themselves. But that is good, because now, perhaps for the first time, someone (me) will tell you about the underlying nature of your issues.
First of all, reread my posts carefully. I never said anything about right and wrong, which is the subject matter of morality and metaphysics. I only discussed what IS - objective reality.
Somehow, my words caused you to condemn yourself, and reactively you then condemned me. Predictable.
You say you're a cluttered mess? That's always a sign of a cluttered mind, which is a mind with too many nuisance thoughts running around with lives of their own. Resentment is usually the emotion that sustains ruminations. You seem resentful, so the shoe fits.
You're mind isn't blank when you can't concentrate on the assigned task, is it? Is your mind entertaining all sorts of other thoughts?
I rather doubt you have ever learned to still your mind. I also doubt you have any sense of what thoughts are and why you have the thoughts you do. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but all your nuisance thoughts are word based, yes?
FYI, most nuisance thoughts, ruminations and spinning thoughts are caused by self-doubt and by cruelties and injustices you have suffered in your life. Things that caused you resentment 15 years ago could still be running around in your head, sometimes in the background, other times in the foreground. All the thoughts initiated by resentment stay in memory and link to each other. Because of that, each new resentment can be more and more powerful, as it gets some of the emotional power of all the past resentment from the way the mind is triggered to recall aspects of all the memories coded to the same emotion.
When you see an example of road rage for a seeminly minor driving mistake, you are seeing an example of someone who has piled up resentments inside of them, and they are responidng with the combined resentment of a dozen or more instances.
There are ways to stop these thoughts and clear up the mind. As I mentioned in another post, the Zen practicioners are experts in this area and could help you greatly.
The "A" you deserve? What an odd concept. Good grades are commanded by those who can.
All I ever said was don't kid yourself about the condition called ADD. It's not a disorder, it's a characteristic of who you are and how you are.
If you find it more pleasing to take a stimulant drug rather than to learn how to control your thoughts, go ahead, no one is stopping you. You will pay the consequences, which are an undeniable fact of objective reality. As always, the decision is yours.
Good Luck
Evvy:
I wanted to comment on something your wrote in one of your posts.
You mentioned that you devoted a good number of hours pro bono on some work, and then suffered a sanction because of small errors in that work.
My first thought was, Oh yeah, typical people pleaser scenario. There are people in this world who seem to know instinctivley how to take advantage of other people. They know how to spot people who will do things pro bono. It's a predator-prey relationship. But each party is equally guilty.
I hope you learned your lesson - never do anything pro bono if you are ASKED to do it. It's a con, a power play. Yet a different matter to have a charitable idea of your own and act on it. But in that latter case, small errors would be overlooked.
I wonder if you understand anything about power? Do you see that not only can you not command, but you are not very good at obeying either. And now you take a stimulant to be a better obeyer?
I hope you will gain the insight to see who has it in for you and how they are doing it to you. In most cases, they get to you through your resentment and through phony kindness, or by misleading you to think they respect you or see you as an equal.
I suspect you are much younger than I. You would be well advised to view the world with as cynical an eye as possible. That way, you will take fewer misteps on the way to your goals ( all goals are cynical in and of themselves)
Good Luck
Infact ABYSS, why not let eveyone in on the joke.please reference a quote of me, as I've no idea what you are talking about.
I'm thinking that not only do you talk in circles, but you may actually believe the things you say so you think in circles..
Anyways. What pro bono work is it that I did?
AH.... Repeat offender, just a diferent name.
That in itself explains a lot.
Ok.. Im done with 'the idiot'.. Thanks for exposing this arbiterxero.
Abyss
Don't get me wrong, I respect differing view points, it's how we advance and progress. I don't mind hearing your views on ADD, I always keep an open mind - but please don't tell me how I think! You haven't the faintest clue of how my mind works, you don't know anything about me - you don't know my age, my favorite color, my habits, my likes and dislikes, my family, my work, my hobbies - yet you think my mind is so readable like a file drawer - I'm sorry but I'm not that boring. I find it amusing that you call me resentful, anyone I know would say the opposite. But yeah, I see where you're coming from - I resent the ones who try to oppress our thoughts.