Could my son have ODD?
Noah's Dad:
And it may not be the Adderall that is causing the behavior problems; it may be the other meds. (My 12-year-old son, by the way, had a rage reaction to Prozac an SSRI like Zoloft, which caused him to break a window. From my perspective, he will never take Prozac again.) It is a good idea to take a medication vacation from time to time to see where you are. We took my son off of Concerta this February after a year and a half because he said it made him feel flat. Off of his medication, he was totally impulsive and couldn't get any homework done. So we knew beyond a doubt that he still needed ADHD meds. While he no longer wanted to be on Concerta, he agreed to try other meds -- all of which helped him calm down and focus, but had other negative side effects (Adderall gave him facial tics, Strattera gave him migraines). Now he is on Focalin, which seems to be doing the trick.
I'm glad you're seeing a new doctor in June -- I hope it works out for you and your son.
Honestly Noah's Dad...
Your son sounds like he could be ODD BUT you wont really know if it is truely your son or a side effect from his meds. Some meds can cause that type of behavior. I have found that some of the side effects with the meds they put our children on are not listed on the label. My son has had tons of side effects to meds that no label has listed but I have found out lately other children have had the same ones too.
I second what Rae70 said...I wouldn't worry about the label and it can't hurt to try behavior therapy.
My son went through a very bad time when he was around the same age as your son. He got kicked out of daycare, kicked out of public school for 10 days because he trashed the classroom in 1st grade (the teacher put his name on the board...that's it), fought with his older brothers big time (knock one of his brother's teeth loose, gave another one a bloody lip and the other one a bloody nose) and they are all bigger then him. But he just turned 10 today and he is a totally different child. He is hyper as all get out but he is off of all meds and can control his anger much better now. Kids at school have pushed him etc (kids just being kids...picking on the littlest child in the class) and he hasn't done a thing to them. So there is hope...just keep your head up and try to stay on top of the issues at home with his sister and brother.
My son will turn 7 in a week. Approximately 2 years ago, he wasdiagnosed with ADHD. He started on Adderall XR and his world (and
mine) go a lot better...for awhile. During the past 2 years, his Therapist
has mentioned things such as Auspergers, OCD, ODD...... Now in 1st
grade, one of his biggest problems early in the year was his inability to
focus on his school work. His teachers claim he is very intelligent (which I
agree with), but only shows it when he wants to.
The Dr. prescribed Zoloft in an effort to produce better attention
(approximately 5 months ago). Neither his teachers nor I have seen any
significant improvement, but he did start to seem more agressive,
starting maybe 3-4 months ago. He shows his agression in ways similar
to an "explosive child" as described by Dr. Greene. I have read the book
and do an okay job dealing with him at home, but obviously can't be at
school with him. The Dr. prescribed Risperdall (.25mg) which my son
took for about 70 days. If anything, his agression got worse, and he
gained A LOT of weight!
During the past few months, he has gotten into the habit of antagonizing
other children. He has a 5 year old sister and 6 year old stepbrother. He
is a little easier on his sister, but can antagonize his stepbrother
approximatley 10-15 times per day (to the point of tears maybe 1-2
times a day) . He may only get on his sister 1-3 times. He also is
threatening other children at school as well as in the before and after
school daycare program. Just last week, he got suspended from the
daycare program for a week for not listening to the staff people and
hitting another child. He was provoked by the other child, but obviously
not an excuse.
My son is not a monster, but is certainly capable of acting like one on
occasion. When he is not confrontational, he is a sweet, fun-loving child.
But it seems that some nights at home I spend the entire night
threatening punishment, carrying out punishment or simply looking past
small infractions because I can't take it anymore (that's pretty much when
I know it's time for a Dad timeout). Punishment may include timeout's or
taking away things dear to him for a short time. Many times, I catch
myself feeling sorry for him since I feel he can't help himself when he's
annoying or antagonizing other children (or adults), but I still feel I need
to punish. Lately, I have been trying a lot more "counseling" just between
him and I regarding his bad actions or decisions. Even when I feel I have
gotten thru to him, he goes and pulls the same bad action.
I am really frustrated! I know that god wouldn't have put me in this
situation if he didn't think I could handle it, so that keeps me strong. But
for my son's sake (and his teachers friends, brother and sister), I am
hoping there exists a solution. DOES HE SOUND LIKE AN ODD
CANDIDATE? IF YES, I WOULD RATHER AVOID MEDICATION BECAUSE HE
TAKES ENOUGH NOW, BUT IS BEHAVIOR THERAPY A GOOD OPTION?
Noah's Dad - your son sounds a lot like my son - however my son has no threatening behaviours (yet).
I am in the process of going back to the Pediatrician on the 1st of this month.
But I have read a little of ODD and Autism and my son seems like a mixture of those and Aspergers as well.
I am at a point where I am forgetting about labels, and just trying to find solutions to behaviours - just as you are.
Labels give us some weird kind of relief - but they dont really help. So try and put it aside and treat the behaviours.
You know he can't help himself at times, and that is good self honesty. You sound like a terrific Dad, and I would believe if you can afford to try this behaviour therapy - definately try it.
Anything is worth a go. It cannot do any harm. 
Thanks to all for your comments! After his kindergarten school year, his Dr. recommended taking him off of Adderall for the summer. I was stupified! That medication (it seemed) allowed him to make friends and actually get along with other children, something he couldn't do the 1st 5 years of his life. Needless to say, I vetoed his idea. NOW, I see the point that you all are making and that is the medication at some point can contribute to negative behaviors. I am switching Dr.'s in June and will want to make medication, or lack of, a top priority.
I have heard of a "test" that can be performed on brain waves that can make a definitive determination of ADHD. Is anyone familiar with this (I saw it on Dr. Phil)?
I agree with psm0904 that you need to take a good look at the meds your son is on and possibly take him off everything (weaning carefully so no bad withdrawal) so you can get a baseline on his behavior without meds. Some of the meds may be causing the very behaviors you're concerned about. In addition, who determined that he had ADHD two years ago? You may want to have a thorough neuropsychological evaluation done on your son to determine the extent of his school and home difficulties. The evaluation will help you better understand your child and then determine interventions to help your child function better. Once you know what's going on with your son, you may also want to get some support for yourself in the form of a parenting class, support group or individual counseling. As many of us on the board know, raising an extra-challenging child is not easy, and we as parents can use all the help we can get. Please post again if you have questions. I wish you luck!Noah's Dad,
This is a really great informative site on ODD. It explains everything. My son is ADHD/ODD. Just trying not to be confrontational with them is a job in itself. Hope this helps...
http://addadhdadvances.com/ODD.html
My son is that mostly with Mom. I spanking him when he's that way. When she does he hits her. Meds or not. Teaches the child accountability for ones behaviors. This guy is a x behavior child himself now selling the therapy to the public. Wife is doing these things he tells you to do.
Try: the totaltransformation.com
I agree with the comments about the possibility that the meds can be causing some of the behavior. One thing I have learned is that doctors don't always tell you what to watch for or what can happen. In addition they don't consider something as a possible side effect unless its listed on the lable. So my son started this itching thing and I couldn't figure it out. Finally my ex took him to the doc who said it was tics caused by the meds. HUH? Tics look like that? That can happen? Oh, and also after about two years all kinds of weird side effects can occur. I agree that it would be good to find a baseline of behavior off of meds. I'd talk to the doctor about that.
We are taking Matt off of meds this summer. He really has a hard time without them at school, but he is getting older and better able to monitor his own behavior .. so we'll see how it goes. We ARE doing therpy. Speech pathologist to assit with auditory processing. Occupational therapist to help with handwriting. I am reading a lot of books reccomended by our neuro psych regarding behavior modification ... I believe that therapy is always a good first line of defense.
Zoloft and any SSRI can cause aggression in c hildren, especially those who may have undiagnosed early onset bipolar. ODD is a big symptom of bipolar--the kids just can not comply until they are stable. Some pdocs use meds like Zoloft to "rule out" early onset bp. If the kids get worse, then they lean towards bipolar. I don't like this method, but I know that many pdocs use it. Maybe talk to pdoc about weaning him off of it. There is a withdrawal syndrome where the child tends to get worse (sometimes very much worse) before he gets better, but imo it's worth it. Even 10 mgs. can activate a child. I wish you luck.
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