off the subject-michael jackson trial | ADHD Information
This is way off the subject, but i'm sitting here with court tv on and waiting for the verdict to come in for Michael Jackson, i wonder does anybody else think he's gulity besides me? i hop he rots in jail. But i wonder if the jury is going to find him gulity. i will be mad if they don't. how can anybody do that to a child? he really is sick--physically and mentally. What do you guys think?x
SingleDad1boy38534.5198148148I also agree with what you are saying--i loved michael jackson growing up i had his albums, and it's almost like a betrayal, you know what i mean? how could he do this if he did this, i'm listening to the reporters talk and they are saying that his health is not good.Honestly .. I think that the prosecution took the wrong case. I don't see how you can have a rock star on trial, knowing that the jury is going to be very very cautious and very very aware that the whole world is watching them .. and bring a case that had so many holes.
The prosecution had to get the jury to trust them. If they said they were going ot prove something then they better be able to prove it. I think that they ran into big problems when they tried to bring in prior conduct and then couldn't prove it. I think that that evidence along with the fact that their victim had told so many different stories and that the vicitm's mother was a money seeker really made the juror question the prosecution's case.
I don't think that they decided that MJ was a healthy guy who deserved freedom .. they decided that the prosecution did not prove this particular case .. and that's the case that was being tried.
Keelime,
In the commentaries being made last night, I heard someone say that in Scotland, there is a third choice, not just our two of guilty or not guilty. The third choice is unproven. This implies that the person could be guilty, but the prosecution was unable to prove it. I think we need to add this term to our legal system.
lillian38517.3027314815x
SingleDad1boy38534.5216782407VERDICT IS IN..............WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS??????I was also shocked about the alcohol verdict. Oh well. Guess it's back to Neverland.
If anything he should have been found guilty on the misdeameanor alcohol charges..... I guess that is what happens when you have a star struck jury.....i am shocked to the core that michael jackson has got away with all the allegation's that have been thrown at him....it say's one thing for the justice system.......
when i lay in bed with my children it's alway's in the back of my mind if people could see through my bedroom window what would they be thinking 
i snuggle up to my children albeit with pj's on .... we tickle and hug i massage them they attempt to massage me if they have no clothes on so be it it's a natural or in my eyes it's a natural thing ... to be bonding with my children...............yet there is a complete outsider sleeping with children plying them with alchohol and showing them pornography ...but in the eye's of the law that's ok
well maybe if i had thousand's in the bank ( allegedly) i would not feel so much guilt for being a natural parent and wanting my children to grow up feeling confident of themselves and being abe to show affection to other's without the fear of guilt or reprisal.
for admitting he plied those children with alchohol should have been enough for them to send the guy down for a long time ....when my adhd son is on a bender and is intent on recking my home i would not consider giving him (jesus juice) instead i try to figure out which area i can improve on and what would benefit him most.......then once calm and hopefully asleep i would maybe consider the jesus juice for myself ....lol........sorry had to add my little piece as so annoyed at the justice system ...i am a firm believer in there is no smoke without fire
undersand the difference between "reasonable doubt" and "beyond the
shadow of a doubt."
As I previously stated, I think MJ is a child molestor, but this was a very
weak case, and I did not think he would be found guilty. Several of the
prosecution witnesses were unsavory characters, and the mother was an
out and out scam artist.
It's too bad that the case that was settled out of court by the late Johnny
Cocheran was not the case to go to trial.
I hope that mothers understand the difference between being found not
guilty and being innocent, and keep their boys out of MJ's reach. well money talks bullsh*t walks.... As a woman that was molested when I was younger it makes me
Now he can go back to neverland thinking he can molest all the kids he wants and get away with it.....WOW if i was to admit at giving minors alcohol, I'd be found guilty!!!!! What an injustice.i didn't think he'd be found guilty for sexual offenses, but I felt sure he would be found guilty for the alcohol. Heck, he admitted it on the stand!!!!!! go figure. what was the verdict??? is he guilty if so what did he get sorry i didnt get to see it i was out for a walk???
Not Guilty
Not surprised. The "beyond a reasonable doubt" burden is a big burden. I didn't watch the trial, but I read the trial updates on CNN. I have to tell you I had doubts as well. Now we wait to see what the fall out is.
yea i aint to surprized but it just makes me sick that a guy like that can get away with stuff like that
Well, the jury debated a LOOOOONG time, so I figure there must've been a reasonable doubt. It IS possible that he didn't do it.Well, I have to agree I think Michael Jackson is guilty and such people need to be seriously beaten and stoned and such HOWEVER
...enter devil's advocate.....
What if he isn't guilty? Do you KNOW how many people claim rape to get attention? Look at all the people that you presonally know that have pretended to be suicidal. People will do alot when they just want attention and they'll go to what the current extreme is. These days it's not juat abuse, it's sexual abuse. Do you know how many people falsley claim they've been sexually abused?
See that's what really gets me. Sexual abusers need to be in jail FOREVER BUT, it becomes nearly impossible to tell who's telling the truth. Honestly, if some random guy was accused of sexual abuse by some girl, chances are it's her word against his and there isn't much physical evidence. On the jury, just because of the nature of the crime and the media sensationalism of sexual abuse, would you not walk in assuming guilty? I bet 99% of you would. And that's scarry. I've read stories of say a 3 year old girl saying that her dad put his pee-pee on her pee-pee, and naturally, people witch-hunting sexual abusers, end up percieving that as him abusing her sexually. 2 years in prison later, it turns out that he merely didn't flush the toilet before taking a pee after she did.
I'd like to see every sexual abuser put away for life...... (although actually I'm a large advocate for reforming people)....but how do we know?
The lady in the MJ trial has been suing large corporations before to try and get cash, this likely isn't much different. What's REALLY sad and that nobody see is that both MJ and the MOM are abusers. MJ probably molested them, and the mom definately is using them as a cash-cow. In the end, the children are suffering twice, if not 3 times.
What we need to be concerned about is the children and helping them get through this tough time and yet none of the media cares to help with any of that, they just want to make money and get the ratings, in the end showing us what we want to see, the same thing we've wanted to see since the 1700's..... a witch hunt.
Sadly as a society we aren't getting any smarter, we're just getting dumber in new ways.
Michael Jackson is ill regardless of whether he did it or not, and his career and public life (holding a baby over the rails) shows that. Making him a child-star started his whirlwind life and will likely end it too. The same thing happened to the olsen twins, one's now such a drug addict that she's nearly died from Over-Dose several times. I know vague amounts about pop culture but try to stay out of it. Becomeing a star may seem like a dream, but 90% of them end up psychotic drug addicts and 100% of them aren't worth my time.
Anyways, I guess I just used this as an excuse to make a rant about pop culture..... UP WITH RUKUS!
That's how i grew up. I called it lucky. When I did find out about child abuse (of all kinds), I was shocked!!!! I never even saw my father in his underware. I didn't realize that kids were dealing with that kind of thing. I guess this topic has changed into a "personal" thing and no longer about m.j. lol it's about that time.
x
SingleDad1boy38534.5232986111x
SingleDad1boy38534.5230324074[QUOTE=SingleDad1boy]Also...I really want a little girl (Because I have a boy) but OH MY GOD.. That is like something dirty if you ask if you can adopt a girl.
[/QUOTE]
Seriously?
Singledad... I totally totally agree with your statement. I too have issues with this...I am so upset I cannot even write... Bravo to you Sir..... Keep up the good work.Ix
SingleDad1boy38534.5238194444Some Americans are greedy and will do anything in the name of Moneychatters: that's the point i was talking about. my 3rd eye can predict the future. lmao
[QUOTE=SingleDad1boy]Do you know they asked me if I planned on selling my sons organs on the blackmarket when I adopted my son from Russia. I thought this was a sick joke but then I started reading stories on the internet how some people sell orphans to harvest their organs on the black market. I hate even typing this because it makes me so sick to think about. 
[/QUOTE]
That's just sick. I think you have found something that you and I can agree on. I had no idea adoption was that hard. Not to mention to sell them on the black market!!!!!!!! Is this what you have been talking about all this time?
I agree with singledad 100%!! Its NOT fair that men cannot express their love for kids like women can. Shoot! My husband loves gardening & people say he must be gay or something. Its ridiculous! And then there are the people who do absolutely nothing & that makes me even more sad! My neighbor told me her 2 boys were sexually molested & when I expressed my sadness & tasked her if the molester was prosecuted she told me, "no we didn't press charges because hes our friend"!! How horrible is THAT!!?!! Those poor kids who have to live with her & know that their mother took no steps to try & protect them!!
Oh, & as far as women having issues with this subject, I grew up completely ignorant to the fact that molestation was even out there. I think it was in Jr high or even high school when I did a report on child abuse & learned the horrible things that can happen to kids! I guess I was sheltered or just lucky but I'm the oldest of 18 grandkids & we all slept at everyone elses houses & the men didn't even walk around in their underwear let alone touch any of us!
I never was abused, either. I did have a guy drive me home from a party when I was about sixteen and try to sexually assault me in the driveway of my house. What an idiot! But so many of my friends have been abused, especially on dates, it is unbelievable.
Anyway, we slept together in my house on occassion, when we were young kids, and no one thought anything about it. I never saw my father naked or in his underwear, though.
Ogram,
I don't think he's easily scared 
! A person with opinions and that's a good thing .
Ack, sadly I'm going to have to side with single dad on this one....awaits flame-war....
You have to understand, NONE OF YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO PASS JUDGEMENT...
You only know what the media tells you, NONE of you were there in the trial, so whether he IS or IS NOT guilty, YOU aren't qualified to say. The media sensationalises sexual abuse these days because it's the latest witch-hunt and I for one won't be hunting witches today or EVER.
Do you know how many false reports of sexual abuse there are?
How many people are looking for attention? Do you remember the media coverage of the mom accusing target or something for sexual abuse?
NONE of us are qualified to pass judgement..... you're all ridiculous for thinking that you are qualified. TURN OFF THE TV.....seriously...go for a freaking walk or something and forget about pop culture for 10 minutes.
Think of the boys here. Michael Jackson very well may have sexually abused them but their mother also has trianed them to lie. Their mother has a hand in their demise aswell.
Shame on all of you for attaking single dad like that. What are you Witch hunters? He has a valid point and anybody not willing to see that needs to sit down and turn off their TV.
Peoples lives get DESTROYED because of groups and individuals not willing to admit that sexual abuse has among the highest false-reporting of any crime. If I were accused of it in a court room, before evidence was even shown would you be sitting there assuming I'm guilty? probably.
don't you think that's wrong? Why should I go to jail because someone else wants some money or a little media attention and sympathy? It's like the fake-suicide. They want attention and pity. Don't feed it.
singleDAD I stand behind you 100%, being a sensitive male I'm with you.
As a reasonable guy, I'm barelly allowed to say that in the morning I let my daughter come and cuddle up with me in bed and watch cartoons, but it's probably my favourite spot in the day.
Hell what would you think of me if you found out that I bathe my 3 year old daughter? What if I wanted to put on my bathing suit and get in the tub with her to play with the boats sometime?
Sicko right?
No, I'm a father and I love my daughter more than myself, and if that means one day I go to jail because her mother decides to convince her to lie, so be it.
I do believe that Michael Jackson is guilty, perhaps not with this boy but with some boys. Yes he deserves to be in jail.....but this case, I can't say he is guilty on, I haven't seen any evidence and the media cannot be trusted.
arbiterxero38518.3663773148
Singledad1boy,
Hee, hee, hee. When it comes to rearing children, I think men are discriminated against horribly! There is not doubt about that. I'm going to tell you a family story:
My father had a very good friend that was abused by his wife. She slapped him, burned him with cigarettes, poured hot coffee on him while he slept. Now, I know a lot of women may be saying, "How can a man put up with that?" Simple, if he hit her back or restrained her, she would call the police and say he was abusing her, and they would arrest HIM! They never questioned whether or not she was telling the truth. Why did he stay? Because of the kids. He knew if he went to court, he would lose custody of the children because of the false allegations she had made against him. He refused to leave and allow her to have custody of the children because he was afraid she would start abusing the children, once he, her target, was gone. Finally, the oldest of the children became a teenager and what she had to say mattered in court. One night, the police came to arrest him, and the teenage daughter told the police they were arresting the wrong person. The police did not believe the teenage daughter, at first, but they did in the end. He was able to leave his wife and get custody of the children because of the teenage daughter. True story.
lillian38518.371875
Singledad1boy,
About adoption...My husband and I wanted to adopt a child from China. We could not because of his age (he's fifteen years older than I am); however, if I had not been married to him, I could have adopted without any problem. We laughed and talked about divorcing just long enough to finalize the adoption. Living together without being married would have been O.K. Does that make sense to you?
[QUOTE=SingleDad1boy]
You are overlooking one major issue of my post. Yes I understand all the aspects of child abuse and what its like for the victim. I just asked this simple question.
How come socielty feels there are no false allegations.
DO YOU KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO HAVE YOUR LIFE RIPPED APART BECAUSE OF A LIE?
There is always two sides to every issue and I am just voicing an unpopular view of the other side.
Regardless if you beleive this or not...there are compassionate men who help dsyfunctional families and children. They do not want to have sex with the children or their mothers.
[/QUOTE]
After reading all of this, and thinking a while, i wanted to say something. singledad: yes, i do believe there are flase reports. And yes, i do believe there are two sides to every story. But a few days ago i remember you b*tching me out for voicing my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion, just like every one else. I do not know M.J. personally, but I do have a friend that does (get that, i know some one that knows him). She will defend him for the rest of her life. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Don't you think calling a child "trashy" is a little harsh? I agree with you 100% about the false reports. I have seen lots of people yell sexual harassment, and they move up the ladder much faster than the people that work for what they have. Lives and Family's can be ruined from this. But, don't be a hypocrite. You can not b*tch at me in one breath and turn around and do exactly what I did that set you off. You had to know that if you put that in the post, you are asking for a argument. If you want someone to agree with you, try being politically correct and not call kids trash. It's just wrong. It's okay to disagree, but you went a little far. Now, I'll sit back and watch this and wait for you to prove my point.
one last thing, I'll say if for you. "I'M A HORRIBLE, MEAN, UGLY AND BAD PERSON, with no regard with other people's feelings. I don't think of any one but myself." You can leave that out. lol
for those of you who know me, know what i mean, but those that don't just ignore me, it's the 3rd eye that gets in the way!!!
We all know that it happens both ways-false accusations and sexual abuse! Just because there are people who have have been falsely accused does that mean that others have not been sexually abused? I also happen to think that there is more sexual abuse in this world than people who have been falsely accused. Most sexual abuse is never reported. Victims are ashamed and often not believed. How sad is that??
sd1b-I am truly sorry for you if you have been falsely accused of sexual abuse-but that doesn't make everyone who has ever been accused innocent. Sexual abuser's are very cunning and calculated when it comes to victims-MJ is no exception!!
I would rather be falsely accused as an adult than a child called a liar who was truly molested. My heart goes out to you Chatters
!
OGRAM-too funny!
I usually agree with you Singledad .. but I do take exception to your classification of alleged victim and his mother. Not because you think that they lied. Call them liars. But because you pidgeon hole them by calling them names. The names themselves indicate that "people like that" lie and should not be believed. Maybe you honestly feel that way. In which case we agree to disagree.
My ex-husband had his life ripped completely apart by a false allegation of abuse. It ripped my life apart as well. The fact of the matter is that the state will bring a case against someone without ever investigating it beyond the statement of the child. Once the case is brought it doens't matter if you are innocent or not .. your attorney fees and witness costs will be around 0,000 .. IF you are lucky and you have an attorney who is willing to give you a break. Your name is announced on the local radio and teh whole town hears about it. You get arrested at work. You get to spend the night in jail (or 2 or 3 or 4) and you never get to talk to your child or her mother to find out what the heck is going on. Even when you pass a lie detector test, everyone is still busy gossiping about you. Then after your name is totally destroyed, you are totally broke and you are still facing the idea of trial wherein your little baby girl is going to say really horrible things about you settle. You agree never to see your children again and you get to stay out of jail. And even though you want to try the case, to "clear your name", your family and your lawyer talk you out of it because there are so many instances of false allegations wrongful convictions in these case. So you go on .. but you don't really go on.
Yes .. I totally agree that there are false allegations. I even agree that the alleged victim could be a liar. But I totally disagree with the way that you have labeled them .. thus labeling everyone like them. I guess if I want to commit a crime it should be against "trailer trash".
Thany you very much eastwest. you must have seen my eye.
EastWest
TY.....BUT DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR ME FEEL SORRY FOR THE KIDS OF TODAY THAT DOESN'T GET JUSTICE.. IT WAS SOMTHING I WORKED OUT WHEN I WAS A ADULT.I RAN IN MY MOMS HOUSE ANGRY AS HECK YESTERDAY OVER THE VERDICT AND TOLD HER WELL THERE GOES ANOTHER KIDS INNOCENCE..
ORGAM I GUESS IT IS THE TEXAN WAY TO BE UPFRONT AND VERY VERBLE AND I THINK IT IS THAT 3 RD EYE GETTING IN THE WAY...THANK GOD YOU DON'T HAVE A 4TH...
I THINK NOW THE TRIAL IS OVER ALOT MORE STUFF WILL BE COMMING OUT...I DON'T THINK IT IS OVER WITH..
AND I TELL YOU WHAT FOR A INNOCENT PERSON HE SURE STAYED IN THE HOSPITAL ALOT AND WAS SICK AWFULL ALOT..TO POSTPONE TRAIL
AND TO SINGLE DAD
AND I TELL YOU WHAT FOR A INNOCENT PERSON HE SURE STAYED IN THE HOSPITAL ALOT AND WAS SICK AWFULL ALOT..TO POSTPONE TRAILQUOTE]
VERY GOOD POINT!!!! I had not thought of it like that. I do believe you've got it. lmao I think i see an eye lash or two in the center of your forhead!!! wait.......................................yep, I do!!! Your getting your 3rd eye!!!
single dad.....
Do you know how it feels to be called a liar because a child molester says it did't happen. Do you know how it feels to have to go threw years of therapy because you couldn't handle only people in your family believed it..... Do you know how it feels being called a trashy little girl that lied to get her way??? Do you know how it feels not to testify because you were to scared ?????? Do you know how it feels because you did't prosecute that he did the same thing to his daughter?????? I DO AND IT SUCKS....I WAS THAT LITTLE TRASHY GIRL....
Singledad1boy,
I have a question for you. Do you think it is possible that MJ picks his victims well? I don't mean to imply that he does, I just would like your viewpoint. Do you think, it is possible he picks children who have a past and parents who are marginal? After all, who would believe these children, if they go to court? You know what I mean? I think it's interesting that most of the jurors I have seen on TV, and I have not watched much of it, have talked about how they disliked this kid's mother. This dislike seems to have been the focal point in their decision. Do you think it's possible he picks his victims well, or do you think he feels a special need to help children from dysfunctional families, and this need to help is what is getting him involved with these people who are falsely accusing him?
x
SingleDad1boy38534.5225810185joe, you are right, he didn't take the stand. My bad. lol he admitted it on the dateline or 20/20 show he did long before the trial. I cannot remember what show it was, though. Thanks for correcting me, i was wrong.
youre not the only one that is happy about the verdict. He has people that pitched tent and slept at the gates of neverland. lol
x
SingleDad1boy38534.5220023148[QUOTE=SingleDad1boy]Shadawbi....I just want to make it clear....my child would not sleep over there either LOLThere are a lot of people who have never been acused of anything that I would not let my child sleep over their house :-)[/QUOTE]
i hear that. lol
Oh MJ is guilty alright-I just don't believe that all of his accuser's are lying. He just picks his victims well. He probably had the strategy figured out before he even molested the victim-HMMMM who will they believe "a little trashy boy and a trailer park mom" or a famous star. Well the unenlighted will think just like Joseph-Judge a book by it's cover or in this case judge a mom by where she lives and call a little boy "trashy" What compassion you have!!
Oh and OJ didn't do it either-right?
EastWest38517.5066203704Joseph (SingleDad) No offense .. but I was a little taken aback by your classification of the alleged victim and his family as trashy and "trailer park".
First, no one deserves to be a victim. Are you saying that anybody who is below your economic and social class doesn't deserve to be believed?
Second, I have friends who live in trailer parks and they aren't trashy .. in fact my Granfather lived in a trailer park on a horse ranch .. it was really a weekend get-away for most .. but he loved it there. And my Aunt and Uncle live on an Island off of the west coast of Florida in a trailer park. It's actually quite lovely. So is everyone who lives in a trailer park trashy? And are they all liars?
I think that the verdict is probably the right vedict .. but even the jurors believe that MJ abused boys. They just didn't have enough to convict on these charges. I don't know if the vicitm and his family were honest .. but I do know that they don't deserve to be judged because of where they live and how much money they have.
Joe, you arent the only person whos happy. As a teen, I LOVED MJ's music! My 10 year old "discovered" his music a couple years ago & she lovres it too! I really dont want it to be true that he would do such horrible things. I think the jury took so much time deciding because they were poring over the evidence. That they found him not guilty means hes not guilty, in my book, although I still would not let my kid sleep over there!! I guess his life will change a lot now that the seed of uncertainty about his character has been put in the public's mind.x
SingleDad1boy38534.5218865741x
SingleDad1boy38534.5221412037[QUOTE=SingleDad1boy]I am saying I have worked with these type people and I know them.
Dont tell me to enlighten myself becuse I have worked professionally in social service / education for years. Yng teenage boys that come from backgrounds like these people are not little innocent children like we want to beleive. They are exposed to God knows what and sometimes are sexually active by the age of 12.
You are blaming the victim!!! The young teenage boys you speak of as "them" are no longer inncocent because of what they have been exposed to-do you think they choose to be exposed to inappropriate things at a tender age? Their inncocence has been stolen from them-this is not their choice.
FYI-being enlightened has nothing to do with how you make a living -it is how you think!
EastWest38517.5496180556x
SingleDad1boy38534.5224189815They lie because they are victims-it is all part and parcel. So thats what that was....I was trying to pluck that but now I know why it wouldn't pluck out..... 
I really believe something happened to these boys, Why would it have come to this if something wasn't right? I believe the boys and there families were paid off to keep quiet, It's funny to me that one minute there is a problem the next minute everyone is changing their story and after a year he is innocent, that would be right up there with O.J. I want to be a celebrity so I wont get into trouble for anything i do
What adult in there right mind would sleep with someone else's children
Singledad1boy,
I am not misunderstanding your argument. I am pointing out that the reasons you think MJ is not guilty are the same reasons other people think he is, so bringing them up in the manner you did was lighting the fire.
As far as false allegations, I know they happen, and they are horrible when they do. This is a truly frightening part of foster parenting, and many people who would be capable and wonderful foster parents don't do so because of a fear of this.
Finally, I ask...Can you say that one out of four of all the men you meet have been sexually assaulted? Have you ever asked your female friends if they have been sexually assaulted either as a child by an adult or as a teenager by a "date" or as an adult by a "date," boyfriend or husband? Of course, you would not ask. But if you did, I think you would find the statistic of one in four is too low. And the majority of people on this board are women, so we do have a tendency to be sensitive about this subject. We can relate (either personally or with our female friends, sisters, and mothers), and many of us did not bring charges for the fear of being called "trash."
Just a thought. And BTW, my brother and husband agree with you.
I heard on the newa that Michael is going clean--no boys in his room or sleeping with them.Yeah right, it'll happen again you watch. he may lay low for about 6 months and then another child will come foreward. did we scare singledad1boy off? Singledad i wanted to say I am sorry for going off but you struck a nerve in some of your uses in your words.But I still stand on my ground about Mj molesting these boys.[QUOTE=Tamaraw1969]I really believe something happened to these boys, [/QUOTE]
Interestingly, some of the jurors have said that, too (since the verdict).
well spoken, keelime
i wonder how strong of a case it would have been if it were not a celebrity? You know, just a guy off the street. Money can buy alot of things, including freedom, though it's not right, but i think it's true. Look at OJ.
ogram38509.8874537037x
SingleDad1boy38534.5199884259Sleeping in bed with your child and sleeping in bed with a child who is not your own is quite different, I think. My son does not want to sleep in my bed, but if he did that would be O.K. I can remember lieing next to my mother as she slept and trying to match her breathing. This still brings a smile to my face. I also can remember my parents talking about how the family would go to bed at night then wake in the morning, and everyone had switched beds! This probably was an exaggeration on their part, but kids sometimes want to sleep with their parents for the physical closeness and the emotional security. I agree that there is nothing sexual about this, and I do think people make too much of it today.
But letting your kid sleep in the same bed with another adult? No, I don't get that.
well, i think any GROWN man that doesn't see any wrong in sleeping with a small little boy, is a sick, twisted pervert. I think him rotting in jail is too easy!!! I'd like to see him tried in Texas. lol We have an express lane to the electric chair for sex crimes and child abuse!!! That's the truth. I for one don't understand what the fuss is about, he himself says there is nothing wrong with sleeping with the young boys. he's a sick freak.Do I think Michael Jackson is a child molester? Hell yes. And I don' think hewould have settled out of court in the past if he was not guilty. I'm sorry,
but when it comes to a charge as serious as child molestation, I don't think
you settle out of court just because it is expediant. No way. If you have
nothing to hide, you go to court and make the accuser prove his case. Do I
think Michael will be found guilty this time? That a tough question, and I
think the outcome all depends on the prowess of the attorneys. Michael has
the best money can buy and Messereau may have raised enough reasonable
doubt to cause the jury to find Jackson not quilty. It is unfortunate that the
case that went to trail is not a strong one. The parents are scum and their
credibility will weigh heavily with the jury, regardless of the judge's
admonition. keelime38510.2658564815I knew about Chris Rock and Jay Lenno, but I thought is was just a criminal law suit. Don't they have to wait 'till the verdict to go to claims court? I'm just asking, I don't know.
x
SingleDad1boy38534.5203009259America also is the only Countrey where it is considered not ok that kids and parents are in a same bed. Poor people have kids in same beds. What's the real difference anyhow. I agree along as sex isn't occuring that's the difference really. We all are assuming this happened when none of us knows the truth. God will let him have what he deserves anyhow. The whole sharing your bed issue is a big deal in U.S. culture, period. Parents in some other cultures not only do not have an issue with this, but they share bedrooms with children, too. The reasons for this are obvious--their houses are much smaller than ours and their families are larger. Hey, Brent. We just had the same thought at the same time. Posted the same comment!!! That's funny.x
SingleDad1boy38534.5205324074[QUOTE=SingleDad1boy]Hey ogram:
I just have to say one thing. When you say sleeping with little boys I assume you mean having "Sex" with them. Michael Jackson said he saw nothing wrong with sleeping (Non Sexual) with children. I hate to say this but I agree with him. My little boy loves to climb in bed with me. Our society uses the word "Sleep" as meaning sex and it just sounds so weird to say you sleep with children.[/QUOTE]
I guess I should go in to a little more detail. I don't know nor do I care about how "parents" and "their" children sleep in their home. I just don't even want to open that can of worms. I know you are wondering, no my son doesn't sleep with my husband or me. He has never wanted to and that is fine. But for a grown man to have been acused of a child molestaion and settle out of court, to still sleep with children that have NO relation to him and say there is nothing wrong with is, has searious issues. You can paint it any way you want, but to when the picture is complete, IT still shows a grown man in bed with children that he has no business "sleeping with". These kids have NO relation to him. Yes, I do think it is wrong. Why would someone with nothing to hide settle out of court to turn around and do it again? Sick!!!!! You can judge me any way you want, but at the end of the day, you can bet your bottom dollar my son will not be sleeping with any adult, not even me. lol
I think people go after the stars for money which this family has done before. I do agree he has changed into some weird person. I let God decide what will happen. I don't think kids and Adults belong in a bed.Our kids did climb in bed with us some, but we also make them go back to there own beds now that they are older. This is not a good thing for anyone. The Jackson family has issues of a controlling father. Read more on the family up bringing. I don't say he it did when people lie just to get money also. It was also said on tv this family has a history for fraiming celebrities also. What do you think on that note. They have very little money. I do agree that what was sopposedely done is not ok. Brent38510.3332986111brent do you know if the parents have a personal $claim against Jackson? I havent really heard anthing about the money part of it. I do know that the parents have tried to get money from other celbs.It was sayed on Tv they are known for going after stars. I agree with single dad. I like MJ, I think he is very talented, but he is a product molded to what we wanted. we as fans that is. we wanted more music more performances more of him. so his family made money by molding him to provide us with what we wanted and what they wanted. He may actually not know right from wrong. I also don't think he should be the scapegoat here. He doesn't go anywhere alone, what about the umberlla holder, what about he employees they never questioned him, why because they work for M.J. how cool is that. and like everyone has said I think this family is just as guilty for allowing it to continue. As a survivor of child molesting, you don't talk about it, but I sure didn't want to go to wherever if I knew MR. X was going to be there. If I did go with mom and dad I would not leave my mom side. All it took was once and that memory will ahaunt me forever. so who is guilty? I beleive M.J. needs a break and should be put on an island where his only compainions are animals then lets see what happens.[QUOTE=lynnann] I beleive M.J. needs a break and should be put on an island where his only compainions are animals then lets see what happens.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand.
x
SingleDad1boy38534.5209027778Question: what if it was a female celebrity? would you feel any different on the subject of sleeping (not sexual) with kids that are of no relation?
i'm not even talking about the sexual abuse, just literally sleeping. i hate to admit it but i have a double standard when it comes to this. i don't think it is a big deal. maybe cause we see women as care givers and not men. no offense singledad..you're a rare breed. then again maybe i feel this way because i was molested by 2 grown men when i was growing up.
BTW..i do think he's guilty, someone here said it..why would you settle out of court if you're innocent? you would think that you would want to clear your name especially of something so serious and not just brush it under the rug.
Good question, Slacker! I once had a young female professor who slept with her graduate students, and no one saw anything wrong with this. However, when three of the male professors at college were caught doing this, they were fired. There definitely is a double standard.
I don't really care WHY MJ is the way he is. We had a foster boy, age 11, live with us for three years and found out he was abusing our kids and neighborhood kids. Naturally, we were devestated. The child himself not only had no remorse but didn't really understand he had done anything wrong. Oh, yeah. He killed two of our dogs too, and scared my little ones so much they didn't tell me what he had done to them until it had gone on for a while. He acted like a perfect angel to adults and not one of his foster parents ever suspected he was dangerous. The point is, WHY doesn't really matter. This child will never be cured. He is 15 now and in lock-up and has tried to perpetrate there, even though they have cameras watching him 24/7. At 18 they have to let him go and he WILL do it agian. In fact, he is so dangerous, and talks a lot about killing people, that I woudln't be shocked to see his face on television one day as a killer. Certainly his life in foster care made him this way---he can't remember being abused, but he obviously was. That doesn't make him any safer for society. I think MJ is the same, only more dangerous since he is a celebrity with lots of fame and money. There are goofy parents out there who let their kids have sleepovers with this grown man and getting nabbed for it once, and having to settle out of court, didn't stop him. Nothing will unless he is taken off the streets. On the female question, I'd be VERY afraid if some female star slept with little boys all the time and a few accused her of molesting them, and I wouldn't allow THAT either. JMHO psm090438510.4803703704I just think Michael Jackson is the product of a seriously screwed up childhood (and I'm not talking about the fame), and as a result has turned into an abuser. I was once a huge fan of his, but I've seen and heard enough. I think he's guilty.
Side note, though: I also think the parents of these boys who approved these "sleepovers" to begin with are sick......and partially responsible for what happened to their children. I've yet to hear anyone complain that Michael Jackson stole their son out of a mall and molested him. These kids were practically escorted to him by their parents.
Leigh_GA_6638510.4875925926Yes, Leigh__GA__66, it seems Mr. Jackson picks his victims well. They are vulnerable children because they have parents who don't care. This also makes him look better in court because the family can be portrayed as psycho. The whole thing makes my skin crawl.
No, it is not wrong for parents and kids to sleep in the same bed---BUT Michael Jackson is not these kids parent. That is inappropriate. Is it child abuse--no--but that is not far off. Also, we do not know what exactly went on behind closed doors.
I do think the accusers are grifters looking to cash in, but that does not mean something highly suspicious was not going on. In fact, I think these parents should be brought up on charges of child endargerment. What parent thinks it is okay for a grown man to have a sleep over with kids. Also, Jackson's staff should be charged, too. They enabled this behavior. When did it become wrong to question. Even if it means losing your job. I would not be able to sleep at night knowing I let this go on.
These children were used by Jackson and their parents. I find this absolutely disgusting. I find it amazing what some people will do to cash in in life. They will all pay one day for their poor choices.
Joseph thanks on that. I thought it was to give you a good start for your day and help the body function at it's best. Brent38510.3825578704I'm back, erasing my comment. I don't want to get kicked off this board because of a crude joke .
Most of the time people who have such strong reactions to a particular subject usually has personal issues in their past surrounding this issue.
I have never in my entire life even remotely thought of children in a sexual way but I have been brought up in a very large family (As jackson has) and sleeping in bed with children is kind of like a bonding time. You watch tv, talk about Santa coming ect... I am not judging you are all Ogram but just as you think its very negative (And with Jackson it probably is and I agree). I just wanted to say my experience on this issue is that it is not a big deal like our society trays to make it out to be. If you are doing nothing sexual with a child what is the big deal about them being in your bed? In Michael Jackson's defense that is what he was tying to say and I agree on this issue. But on the other hand I agree with you....someon with Jacksons past would never be allowed to be in bed or around my child unsupervised.
But....Maybe I should not post this here because I would be attacked and labeled but I have slept with lots of children in my bed. My nephews, neices and even some I kept while their parents were overseas (They were scared). I respect you decision of not allowing a child in your bed but the bed issue is very VERY non-sexual in my redneck culture. Heck.....you had to share beds if all the family came to spend the night we did not have enough beds to go around.
But like I said. I see your point with Jackson but I also see the point he was tying to make on TV. He just has very poor judgment
Joseph
[/QUOTE]
by the way, I'm sure you don't give your children alcohol and pain killers. Do you see a problem with that?
do you care to come out with what ever it is you are insinuating? I'd love to hear it.
ogram38510.4079976852Just a quick comment about children who are sexually abused...
Yes, they carry the guilt. Sadly, for children who come from dysfunctional or abusive families, sex is the only attention some of these children receive, and, yes, they are more than happy to be around the perpetrator because of their need for attention. This is one of the major reasons why foster children will act out sexually--they are trying to be accepted and loved, and they see sex as being what has given them the "acceptance" and the "love" they got previously. As stepmom2maddy said, sex also can feel good, and for a child desperately looking for love and attention, doing something that feels good that gets you attention is "killing two birds with one stone," thus the reason why people who have been sexually abused often become sexually promiscuous as teenagers or adults. Finally, some children want to fix things. This is something about foster children that breaks my heart, but it's true. They want everything to be O.K., and they are willing to put up with all kinds of crap, including living with the perpetrator, to make things O.K., to fix things.
Just some thoughts I had after reading the above posts.
x
SingleDad1boy38534.5211689815You think sleeping with little kids at 45 is normal? Everything about MJ is typical of child abusers, including picking a profession that is around kids. He built Neverland to lure them around. I hope he's sent to jail so he can't perp again. I also agree that the parents of these children are nuts to have allowed them to have sleepovers with a grown man. MJ makes my skin crawl.He makes my skin crawl, too. He may not be the kind of preditor we often hear about in the news, but then his fame has given him a HUGE advantage to his sickness. He hasn't HAD to be that scary man who takes little boys away from parks and shopping malls. I'm sorry he never really had much a childhood, but that excuses nothing. Someone has to stop him. If he's aquitted, I'll feel sick to my stomach (but it wouldn't shock me). After OJ.....nothing in courts shock me.[QUOTE=SingleDad1boy]Ogram .....
I'm not insenuating anything. I simply stated a fact.....if someone gets so mad over an issue it is because they have personal experience with that issue. I have no idea why you think I am directing that toward you. It was a general statement concerning child abuse hysteria.
Also ....I would like to point out based upon personal experience ....women sexual abuse children also and there is a double standard.
There is also a double standard concerning male to male sex verse male to female sex. No one talks about ELVIS or JERRY LEWIS having little teenage girlfriends but let Michael Jackson be around a street thug who probably has had sex ....and the world goes crazy.Just a thought[/QUOTE]
good save!!! lmao I know you are wondering, I was never abused as a child. Although, I was a councilor at a crisis center that dealt with domestic violence and sexual assault. The things I saw left an imprint that will never be forgotten. There is no double standard. In our school district the just fired and brought up criminal charges for a female teacher (26) sexually abusing a 15 year old boy. She is no longer allowed to teach and has already lost her license pending her trial. I say the same for her that i did mj. You took every thing that i have said out of context. I didn't realize this thread was about any one other than mj. where did Elvis or Jery Lewis come in to the pic? I feel the same about any one who has sexual relation/abuse with a minor. I take it all at face value. your fact you stated was directed toward me. If it wasn't, then why was my name on it? I was stating a fact. TEXAS has passed a law that pushes any sex offender to the front of the line for the electric chair. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. And I'm all for it (that's my opinion). I will stand my ground. I don't think any grown adult should give minors alcohol and drugs then sleep in the same bed with them. It's wrong. I am sorry that it hit a nerve with you, but I'm entitled to my opinion too.
lynnann:
I am so sorry for your experiance growing up. However, I find fault with you saying these kids would not want to go see him if this happened. I am not sure what your exact experience was, but many are different.
First, molestation is based on trust and seduction. It is not always some traumatic event. They are lured in slowly, and made to feel guilty for letting the situation happen. It is also a pleasurable thing for some, and this creates alot of guilt. Children know it is wrong, but question why they enjoy it. This is the mental abuse that warps a child. This is what lives on inside them and eats away at their souls.
Also, these kids were offered to him like sacrificial lambs. Their parents put all this pressure on them to make nice with MJ. They wanted to "better" their situation. So, the kids may not have felt they could dissapoint them. It is a horrible thing, but it happens all the time.
Anyway, this is my opinion , but one based on alot of fact. Like I said, I don't know your situation, but many experience a far different thing. This is what I feel would have kept those kids going back--if this did take place at all.
Thanks
stepmom2maddy: unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Children carry the guilt. And in my little bit of experience of dealing with sexually abused children, a large part of the children feel more safe with the perpetrator, because the have nothing to hide from them. It's kind of twisted thinking, but while the child is with the person, they don't feel as much pressure for hiding the "secret" from the ones that don't know what has happened. It's just not fare for them at all. But, I can say that I don't know any parents that would let their children "sleep" over at any adults house that has been accused of sexual assault of a minor. I will be interested in the verdict. "beyond a shadow of a doubt" is VERY hard to prove in sexual assault.ogram:
You're absolutely right about children feeling safer. This is the vicious cycle of it. It is amazing to me, as well, that parents would let their kids sleep over. I would not allow this with any adult, other than ones I know extremely well. Even then it would not be okay for them to sleep in the same bed. It is different to sleep with a parent than it is with a "friend". I find it completely crazy.
I do hope that the evidence supports the truth in MJ's case either way. However, if he is not convicted, I think some serious restrictions need to be placed on his behavior. He also needs some major therapy.
JMO
stepmom2maddy, I think the restrictions would be a good thing. I wonder if they can do that, I sure hope so. I agree. I hope justice is served. I think any parent knows not to let other kids sleep in your bed, unless they are your children. He's got to be pretty stupid not to know that he was putting himself in a position for sexual allegations to occur. My son is 14 and ADHD, and immature. Just this year I told him no he can't sleep in a tent with his sister and her friend-my concern is sexual temptation/experimentation/possible allegations from my daughters friends. I know he's is not even near this level in his sexual development. Maybe I'm paranoid but that's not going to change. How could MJ not know that you just don't do this ever with anyone else's children. I think he's guilty and inappropriate with children-he built a park dedicated to lure children to it. Look at his life style. No one can be that wierd or that stupid. Hes a predator. I hope he doesn't get off lucky because he's rich and famous.Remember Paula Poundstone? She was charged with molesting kids!! No grown adult man or woman should be sleeping with kids that are not theirs!! MJ is a FREAK!Singledad:
I have one question just for my own curiosity. It isn't any kind of attack, so please don't take it in that way. I think you have a very valid viewpoint on this similiar to many others.
So my question is--would you allow your son to sleep over at MJ's home in his bed, or in any other adult's bed for that matter?
Sheri
Has anyone considered the effects to MJ' s own 2 kids. There Mom signed over her rights. Now this. This will effect them also. No one here has considered also this family is known for going after celebrities also. He may be Guilty which GOd only knows.I don't know if MJ is a sexual predator or not. I wasn't in the trial to hear the testimony and I am really glad that I don't have to decide that issue. If you convict and you are right you punish a terrible wrong. If you convict and you are wrong then a man's life is destroyed. Either way, if he is guilty, the kids don't get be "unabused". Either way, if he is innocent, the accusations have been made and his life is forever marred.
From a legal perspective, sleeping with children to whom you are not related in and of itself is not a crime. I think that our judgement of whether or not its wrong is based purely upon our perception of the situation. For example, my very good friend's daughter spent the night at my house when she was six. She got scared and couldn't sleep so I let her sleep with me. Earlier that evening I had a movie in the vcr and she and my son were both lying on my bed with me while we ate popcorn and watched the movie. Is that wierd or sick? It sure didn't feel like it to me. We were just hanging out. HOWEVER .. when I hear MJ talk about how he and these boys shared a bed and had hot chocolate .. i get the heebie jeebies. There wouldn't have to be any allegations of abuse .. I think it's weird. I can't help it. It's just wrong. But it's not criminal. He should not be convicted on that basis .. not at all.
Some of you have asked why would you settle a case rather than go to trial and have your name cleared. Well, there are many reasons. First, there are only two people who know if the abuse actually took place or not. You and the child. When a child gets up on the witness stand and describes in detail what the accuse allegedly did .. it's very very powerful. The very idea of an 11 year old even knowing what sex is .. and then to describe these dirty acts .. well .. most jurors are not thinking ... "huh, i wonder if he's lying" they are thinking "holy crap! .. this is so wrong! that this child can tell me about these acts that are so wrong and dirty gives me the heebie jeebies!" The worst part is if the "victim" is a "thug" or street wise and has already expereinced some kimd of sexual activity .. then their story is even more believable because they KNOW what they are talking about. The Defendant's burden of proof sky rockets and the danger of conviction is very high. False convictions do happen and you have no idea how scarey it is to think that you might serve time for a crime that you didn't commit. In additon to that the trial date is usually a year or more out from the date that you are arressted. In that time you get access to virtually nothing. You dont' get to depose the alleged victim, you dont' get access to the victim's medical records, you dont' get to depose the victim's doctors. You are presumed guilty everyone in the system treats you like scum. The state is not required to investigate before they bring charges. One statement from the supposed victim is enough to get you arraigned and bring you to trial. It doens't matter how many witnesses you have that support you. Or how many inconcistent statements that the witness makes .. b/c the state never talks to these people and they DON'T CARE if the victim is lying. That's your burden of proof. So you have to face a child in court .. a child whose sotry is going to turn the jury against you immediately. There are lots and lots of reasons to settle even when you are not guilty.
To state that this family is only after money in this particular case is false. This is a criminal case not a civil case. The case is brought by the state agaisnt MJ for committing a crime. The "vicitm" is a witness not a party. The outcome of this trial is conviction and punsihment of MJ or an exoneration of MJ. This is not the family suing for MJ for money. If that happens .. it would be in a civil proceding. One that had no been filed. The family says that they won't file a civil case .. we'll have to see. Maybe they will end up going after money .. but thus far they have not. Could just be to keep them clean for this trial. Who knows.
As far as guilt or innocence? Well truth be told I was right on the "he is guilty" side b/c I think he has a weird obession with children and I think that the fact that he sleeps with them is wrong and weird .. not defending that position .. i just do. However, I also think that if I were on the jury and the prosecution told me that MJ abused other people and then those people came in and said that MJ didn't do it? well that would give me reasonable doubt and I would probably acquit. No matter how heebie jeebie MJ makes me feel .. if the prosecution tries to paint him as a frecuent offender and tells me who else he "offended" with, and then those people come in and say it didn't happen ... well I'm going to quesiton everything else that the prosecution told me. In my heart of hearts I think he is guilty ... but in order for me to convict him you are going to have to prove it to me beyond a reasonable doubt.
My wife knew about sex at age 9 does this make her a affender. No, Adults can also brain wash kids also. If they don't hear it from parents they will get it from school peers. I agree he seems weireded out. In poor countreys people share beds, rooms, clothes.They do what they have the money for. I never allow my kids to stay with anyone we don't know well. Today we must all do this.
Brent38511.5835069444Oh, I've DEFINITELY thought about his kids. Unfortunately, he managed to convince two women to basically give birth and hand the babies over. Personally, I cringe more at the thought of him raising kids of his own. I do believe I read somewhere that the kids were with someone in MJ's family.
singledad just wondering how you feel if a friend of yours was a 45 year old male and wanted to "sleep" with you child? i find that quite odd that parents would agree to something like that. i'm sure the parents are at fault also for letting such a thing happen, but having a sleepover with a 45 year old man would be quite out of the question in this household. i wouldn't care how much money i'd get for it. sounds like child prostitution to me.
ya da ya da ya da
[QUOTE=chatters] I believe that sleeping with other kids besides your own is bad..My daughter sleeps on a pallet beside my and my husbands bed. And growing up I can remmeber being at my Nannies house and all of us kids slept on a big pallet on the floor we never slept with parents that were not our own.... If the kid in mj case was not molested how did he know about mj's birthmard right above his privates and he was able to describe it???? (My mother in law takes care of a elderly lady and all she watches is court tv) I hate to imagine how many kids out there that were molested by him threw out the years...... Ogram ....I agree he needs to be put threw the exspress line.....[/QUOTE]
very well spoken my friend
SingleDad1boy: I've been sitting here watching every one's posts. I'm not the only one with this opinion, don't get me wrong, it's an opinion; it's not right, it's not wrong, IT'S MY OPINION. I have not said anything bad or negative to you or about you. You seem to want to "pick". To answer your question, I WAS a licensed councilor specialized in domestic violence and sexual assault.
"And I am sorry you are wrong when you say there is not a double standard but I refuse to argue that point. " These are your words. Now, with that here for ever one to read again, I would like to say, again, "I" do not have a "double standard" on this issue. In my opinion, alot like bullies, sexual predators are just that, predators. Male or female, in my opinion they all are sick and twisted, they don't want to take responsibility for their actions. Most deny it over and over again, because they really do not think any one will believe the child. I am sorry I hit a nerve, but I have to ask why you picked me out of the hole bunch. I'm not the only one that thinks he's guilty. You can not just jump on someone for their opinion. So, what is it? If it's that you just don't like me, that's fine. I think trying to insult some one for their opinion is wrong. And not to mention mean. I will tell you again, I'm sorry you got offended, NOTHING i said was directed to you or about you. I never even commented about what you do or what your opinion is. I respect your opinion. You are entitled to it. And now you're wondering why I spoke in past tence about my "past career". I quit my job to stay home with my son.
I believe that Debbie Rowe is fighting for custody of the two oldest children. I am not sure how much of a case she will have if he is acquitted. She did willingly relinquish all parental rights. I find that extremely bizarre, and leads me to believe it was a pre-arranged thing.[QUOTE=stepmom2maddy]I believe that Debbie Rowe is fighting for custody of the two oldest children. I am not sure how much of a case she will have if he is acquitted. She did willingly relinquish all parental rights. I find that extremely bizarre, and leads me to believe it was a pre-arranged thing.[/QUOTE]
that does sound strange.
arbiterxero,
I think that's wonderful that you are close with your child and I'm sure she will always appreciate you being so involved. The point is she is your child, my son crawls in bed with me too. I would not be inviting his 12 year old friends to sleep in bed with us. That is where his mistake was made
I have two really good friends that are homosexuals-they have adopted a boy from Korea and then a girl from Korea on separate occassions. The boy is my son's best friend. Both children were adopted as infants. Not everyone thinks the same way![QUOTE=EastWest]I have two really good friends that are homosexuals-they have adopted a boy from Korea and then a girl from Korea on separate occassions. The boy is my son's best friend. Both children were adopted as infants. Not everyone thinks the same way![/QUOTE]
i agree with you. But remember, I'm a mean and hateful woman that thinks of only myself. lol
THAT'S ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad to see you care, chatters.