Opinions please.... | ADHD Information
[QUOTE=GarbagePailKid]Imagine taking a class in nutrition, and someone says: let's not talk
about calories because I used to be anorexic and this topic is touchy
for me and for others with eating disorders. Just shut up and deal. It
is just a diversity class, and I am sure that you have classes you
prefer more. You are not majoring in diversity, I am sure. So just
shrug it off and get your fragile self out of there at the end of the
semester.
[/QUOTE]
Actually my interest is in human services and any class in sociology is a favorite.
I've had conversations with two people in academia and both believe my observations could have been the basis for a wonderful discussion about disabled people. Both also said the instructor was out of line and I should confront her.
In truth, what I offered had little to do with a fragile self and everything to do with a desire to inform a small group of the great unwashed about learning disabilities.
Funny, next Tuesday our topic is....disabled people!! Sorry Russ :)
"I spoke up and said I was a bit uncomfortable talking about this because in discribing the "Linear" style, the class could be stereotyping because this linear style could be caused from learning disabilities.
She at first suggested the class vote on whether to continue. I then said when it comes to stereotyping I didn't think it was fair to vote at all! She then said if I was not comfortable I could sit this exercise out. "
It doesn't sound like you were trying to enlighten people, it sounds like you were trying to stop a discussion. Whatever. Sorry.
GarbagePailKid38547.4107175926Hey Russ,
Good luck with those social cues. I can relate there.
Don;t many successful business people talk "directly," without having aspergers or anything else? Isn't indirect, fluffy speech shunned in many non disabled cultures? Rambly, evasive speech is often derided. Cut to the chase, Get to the point, say what you mean already?
I completely understand why people would be upset for turning seemingly neutral discussions into Holy Cows.
If every topic is touchy to someone, then what will be spoken about in a class that is not natural science? It is annoying to make everything tabboo, because you can't get over your own insecureties, and bring them to the forefront of everything, reading your own problems into people's nice lil discussions.
She should not have called you names.
If you just raised your hand and said, you know, I speak directly but I think it's because of my learning disability, isn't that interesting, it probably would have seemed interesting, not seen as an attack on discussions.
Imagine taking a class in nutrition, and someone says: let's not talk about calories because I used to be anorexic and this topic is touchy for me and for others with eating disorders. Just shut up and deal. It is just a diversity class, and I am sure that you have classes you prefer more. You are not majoring in diversity, I am sure. So just shrug it off and get your fragile self out of there at the end of the semester.
Me speak linear. Me no like teacher. Teacher mean.My apologies for not being able to outline the entire discussion due to the space limitations here. But I certainly have appreciated all the posts! And certainly, I'm only giving one side of the story but am trying to be as unbiased as possible.
The discussion was not about disabilities, it was about spiral and linear conversation styles in the general population. The instructor described the linear style as--among other things--blunt and direct. She didn't deride the style, but some students in class did and immediately began making fun of the linear style as if it were subordinate to the spiral style.
Symptoms of some disabilities (ADHD, Ausperger's, to name a couple) include problems in social situations where the disabled person may not understand social cues and therefore appear blunt, direct and rude.
My bringing the issue to the table was solely to discuss how the linear style might be the style of some disabled only because of their disability, causing possible prejudices. My intent was purely for positive outcomes.
But even with that, clearly the instructor acted inappropriately in calling a student derogatory names in front of the classroom.
BTW, I've had this social cue problem my entire life and can tell you it isn't fun. In fact it can be horribly depressing. I've often wondered what it would be like to be "normal."Russ38547.3297800926Wait Russ, I'm confused.
Why would a linear speech style be evidence of learning disability? What learning disability is it evidence of? I dont really understand. Would a spiral style of speech be evidence of a different kind of learning disability? Which style do you think add folks have? Do you think speech styles are uniform basically across ADD folks? I speak in spirals, but definitely have spoken to more straightforward sounding ADD folks...poetic and practical speaking folks under the same blanket diagnosis.
I'm not sure why it would be offensive to speak 'direct' or 'spiral' in the first place. Why is either way offensive?
If the teacher was in fact bringing up some style of speech that is common in people with learning disabilities, what's wrong with that? Whole classes are dedicated to discussing learning disabilities. The teacher wasn't saying "Ha ha! those stupid linear retards" It sounds like she was just pointing out quirks- isn't it interesting that some people are this way and other people are that? Let's celebrate.
Truly I dont get it. Maybe I am missing something.
GarbagePailKid38547.0245717593So you are saying now that you wanted the discussion to go on? After saying that the kind of discussion you all were having should not even be voted on? I am lost. I think I'm not gonna respond to this post anymore. Clearly I am missing something. Sorry for not being a help. Everyone else seems to get it and agree with you...listen to them. I am probably just dense. [QUOTE=GarbagePailKid]
It doesn't sound like you were trying to enlighten people, it sounds
like you were trying to stop a discussion. Whatever. Sorry.
[/QUOTE]
This pretty much sums up my concern as sometimes what we "sound like" is due to the disability and is not what we intend.
And so, a professor of human services (who is a director of human services at another college) should have been able to use communications skills such as empathic listening and asking clarifying questions to work the discussion throught to a positive end.
[QUOTE=GarbagePailKid] So you are saying now that you wanted the discussion to go on? After
saying that the kind of discussion you all were having should not even
be voted on? I am lost. I think I'm not gonna respond to this post
anymore. Clearly I am missing something. Sorry for not being a help.
Everyone else seems to get it and agree with you...listen to them. I am
probably just dense.
[/QUOTE]
There is no need for apologies.
My speaking up was purely impromptu, one of those, "hey wait a sec" moments. And therefore, it's really impossible to say what I wanted at the moment in time I spoke up. And as the discussion rolled out, I was pretty much thinking on my feet from sentence to sentence.
And that is why I asked this board for input, good or bad as it seems to me the professor was way out of line in her response and totally irresponsible in her name calling. Perhaps important to your concerns is that I'm well aware of the space limitations here and understand some may be scratching their heads!
Russ38547.6333796296Thanks for the great advice.
Indeed, what I thought would prompt a wonderful discussion turned into a bash session of me....whew.
Certainly I did leave much out of my story, what may need to be said is that when the descriptions of "Spiral" and "Linear" were offered, the class on the whole immediately began degrading the linear conversationalist (as may be expected, joking and laughing about being "blunt" and "direct") which didn't surprise me as the spiral style is the majority.
I'm not concerned about receiveing a poor grade in this class, but what honestly concerns me is that in a class on "sensitivity" and "diversity," it appears ADD/ADHDers and other learning disabled don't rank too high on the ladder of importance. And this is where I would be willing to "stake" my ground. In the long run, seems it probably doesn't matter. But if it is about a prejudice, maybe it is worth it.
Russ38546.5898611111
Hi Russ,
This may be more info than you want, but take it or leave it.
#1 - What you said certainly seems to make sense and in my opinion is quite valid. I believe it was in fact a very insightful observation! It is difficult to tell if it was socially "out of line" without knowing the general atmosphere of the class (is it very orderly and rigid, or is there a lot of student participation, etc.). So were you out of line? I really do not know.
#2 - However, the professor's comments about being rude seem most definately to be out of line and unprofessional. Even if in her opinion you were being rude (and that is just an opinion anyway), it is not her place to comment on that in front of the class.
#3 - Advice? From a practical standpoint, what is your goal in the class? Are you in it for social reasons, for self esteem, for fun, due to interest in the subject, or is it a course you must complete to achieve a larger goal (degree, etc.)? Because the reality is that a tenured college professor can say and do pretty much whatever they damned well please. They can (and often do) drag their personal view on politics, religion, sexuality, etc. into the classroom and thrust it on their students. Many professors are extremely subjective in the way they grade and will make you pay the price for disagreeing (especially if you are right)!
So my adive would most often be to figure out what you need to do in this class to obtain the desired results without crossing any legal or ethical bounds. In the end, proving your point may not be as important as achieving your goals.
Besides, if this professor is a jerk, telling her so is most likely not going to change her! All you can do is be the best at what you are and keep moving forward.
Just my opinion, hope it helps.
What about writing her a letter stating where you were coming from and how you were feeling-then the ball is in her court, but you feel heard?The reason I posted here is in truth, not sure what I want. On one hand I'm a "big" boy and stuff doesn't bother me for the most part. On the other hand, I was stunned at the outcome, especially since this is a class on multi-cultural diversity taught by an African-American female professor.
I have been considering asking for an apology in front of the class NOT to embarrass the professor but more to simply highlight diversity and sensitivity in action.
My attempt at providing an insight about stereotypes and prejudices and how they relate to learning disabilities fell flat. And in a class that is all about understanding how to be "sensitive" to others!!
Chaz really has it right on the head in my humble opinion. You may need to decide if pursuing this matter may be worth a hard earned grade in this subject.
Oh btw, if you're wondering I think your professors description of a linear thinker "blunt" and "direct" describe her. So if you do decide that pursuing this matter is worth risking your grade you might want to let her know that she fits a linear thinker to a T. LOL 
Also blunt and direct do not need to mean rude and insensitive either--as your professor seems to forget.
The professor began a discussion about "Spiral" versus "Linear" conversationalists. In describing the Linear style she used words like "blunt" and "direct." She then asked everyone to guess what other classmate's style was.
I spoke up and said I was a bit uncomfortable talking about this because in discribing the "Linear" style, the class could be stereotyping because this linear style could be caused from learning disabilities.
She at first suggested the class vote on whether to continue. I then said when it comes to stereotyping I didn't think it was fair to vote at all! She then said if I was not comfortable I could sit this exercise out.
After a few minutes debate (no one in class sided with me) the exercise sort of just disappeared into another one.
About 15 minutes later in somewhat related discussion, the professor told me in front of the class that I had been "rude" and "disrespectful" regarding my concern for the stereotyping. While quite angry, I decided this was not a class friendly to "minority" concerns and kept my mouth shut.
I was wondering if anyone has opinions about this; was I out of line for bringing this up for discussion? Should I pursue in private with the professor?
Your professor sounds like a narrow-minded moron. How's that for "linear"?
Seriously though, since I wasn't there, I can't know for sure why she called you "rude and disrespectful". But in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with voicing your concerns. I don't quite understand why she got so worked up about it. She certainly shouldn't have said what she said in front of the whole class like that.
Wow-to me it sounds like she was the rude and disrespectful one. If she wanted to discuss it with you it would have been more appropriate after class in private. It sounds like her ego was bent because she was challenged. I think you did the right thing. Do you want to continue the discussion or let her know you are upset? or do you want to just dropp it-I would want an apology in front the class.
I know this thread is old, but I have to comment.
I took a diversity class once too, and made the observation that it seemed like minorities had as many prejudices against 'non minorities' as the other way around....and that anyone who acts like they have a chip on their shoulder....or a 'prejudice' when speaking with someone....should expect to be treated defensively.
I had the same kind of response you did; I was told I was rude and close minded. It seemed that it is incumbent on the non-minorities to disregard any minority 'attitude' in all communications, and to expect that minorities will behave defensively.
Well, whatever. I try.